What would YOU do??
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Old 07-21-2016   #1
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Default What would YOU do??

Images shot 5 minutes apart.
Left is the hired gun's image. Right is mine.

I was not the official photographer for this wedding. I shot video.
But I always take a few still shots to adorn the video case we create.
In this case, the photographer told me she'd been in business in our town for 10 years, but i'd never heard of her. I could tell she was out of place and wasn't comfortable behind the camera.

In the past we've had family approach us about buying our images if the hired gun's images fell short. (See post #6 in How to Hire a Wedding Photographer).

Would you sell your images to the client if you were not the official photographer?

Side note: "Exclusive Photographer" line item is wedding contracts are invalid in most states.

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Old 07-21-2016   #2
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Default Re: What would YOU do??

Interesting question. I think you know your answer and have been around the block on this a lot.

I'd say that if you sold the image, while it isn't "illegal", could result in the "official photo" from raising a stink either via social media wise, or word of mouth, or legally...all of which paints you as the bad guy, even though you could be proven "right". Tough call. Not sure you want negative publicity that ends up being proven wrong. More will remember the negatives.

But I think it "might" change a bit if you gave the image...maybe. But, then you give away something that would normally cost someone a significant amount, and at some point people would rent a "sub-par" photog for cheap (or zero), get you to video, and then get a free worthy image.

Maybe if you are just the videographer, you don't do the job...? You can't use on the of the official photogs images on your case, because then that represents you and then you might have to pay them to use their image.
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Old 07-22-2016   #3
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Default Re: What would YOU do??

Pickles,
Yes, I've sold images to the family before if I was not the hired gun, but I'm split. Not sure what's the best avenue here. I don't know if there's a right answer.

As my video business grows, I expect this to happen more often.

As far as using the official shooter's images on the case, yes, that was our MO for many years. But photographers are notorious for not getting things to you quickly. I was often ready to deliver the DVD's before the hired gun even finished their editing, hence taking our own.

Being the bad guy is a concern, but probably not in this particular case.
The photographer told me she'd been in business for 10 years. But here's my thing...this is beginner's work, not 10 year veteran level.

No idea what this photographer charged and it's none of my business.
And I am not wrapping on lower level photographers. There's a market for every level of photographer.

Although there's no legal roadblock to my selling of images I captured to adorn the case, ethically, morally....would you do it if the family weren't happy with the official captures?
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Old 07-22-2016   #4
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Default Re: What would YOU do??

Well, in this case, you need to get them a copy of your image. Either free or paid. That is what I would do, so I should have said that I would and not you should.

You weren't there as a photog of sorts, and I'd assume no "rule" that the official photog was the only one allowed to take pictures. So if all that is true, then I'd say if you can sell it and/or make the couple happy with at least one nice image of them, you do it. If you weren't there, they might be blowing up an iPhone pic from Aunt Nellie if the couple looked better in it...

Weddings. Uggh. You either do them right, or not at all. Too "emotional"....
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Old 07-23-2016   #5
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Now I need to ask, should we have the other photo here? It is needed of comparisons, but do they know their image is used here?
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Old 07-26-2016   #6
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Default Re: What would YOU do??

It occurred to me I didn't ask my question it the correct context in the OP.
I'm curious as to what folks would do, if the clients were unhappy with the official photographer's work. I didn't mean to imply we should try to undercut them.

Only once in my career has an upset client approached us as the video provider to inquire about purchasing our images because they received (what I would call) substandard work from the hired gun. But I expect it to happen more often as our video business grows.

As far as the hired photographer knowing we've used her image for comparison, most likely not.
Fair Use Act allows for editorial use, commentary, criticism or parody.

On the one occasion I was approached about selling the images I had from a wedding, which I was not the hired photographer, I did it.
But my question is....would YOU do it?
My video business is growing and I expect this to come up in the future.
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Old 07-27-2016   #7
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Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. In this case, the photographer, AND the bride and groom.

I would probably approach the photographer, let them know that you have a few images that you'd like to make available to the couple for purchase, but that you didn't want to step on her feet. Inform her that if she got paid upfront, it is unlikely to effect her sales. I would not recommend showing the photographer your images unless they requested it. If you get the green light, contact the couple. If you don't simply offer them to the couple as a gift.
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Old 07-27-2016   #8
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Nice image Mark. For the newer shooters, notice that in Mark's image: Grooms face is thinner, bride's face is thinner, detail in the white gown is visible, and at that lower angle, with a longer lens, they appear taller and more regal. They are framed with a tree in the foreground, the dirt isn't visible, nor are the distracting homes in the background. The sky and pose are easy differences to notice, but Mark took this to a whole new level by paying attention to all the other details. Nice work!
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Old 07-27-2016   #9
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Default Re: What would YOU do??

I am one of those guys who believe in PREVENTION of any and all sticky situations which can result in anything from some "ruffled feathers" to a real lawsuit- I don't like to engage in any of those combative or aggravating possibilities.

We have a full-time video crew at my studio- they (we as a company) do the wedding videos for our clients and other photographers (on a sub-contract basis) as well as industrial work and local TV commercial and local inserts for national TV spots. Here's what we do in so far as still photography on video jobs:

There is a clause in our video contracts that states that we will be making some still photography in conjunction with our video assignments to provide packaging images (video cases) still photography inserts in our videos, and instructional, editorial, advertising, and promotional purposes. We have all parties concerned sign off of this clause.

Even in feature film production, there is a "stills photographer" on the set for the aforementioned purposes- his or her name always appears in the screen credits at the end of the film. We have been doing this contractual clause for the last 15 years. We include the cost of creating a video case or the stills inserts in the price of the shoot. When we are shooting for other studios we do not offer any images, prints or merchandise, directly to the end client. We let the primary contractor handle all of that in that we consider ourselves sub- contractors. If we are hired for the video to work directly with the end client we still prefer if all still photography is handled through the hired primary wedding photographer. If any money changes hands, it is between our t studio and the other studio. We find that this policy always KEEPS THE PEACE! We feel this is the ethical thing to do. Good relations foster cooperation on the jobs as well! We don't want anyone to feel that we are bypassing the main wedding shooter. This is not so much of a legal issue as an ethical one- just a matter of perception.


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Old 07-27-2016   #10
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Default Re: What would YOU do??

I have no idea what I would do, but I have a question about Fair Use, Mark. Does that not include crediting the photographer?


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