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Old 01-09-2008   #11
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Default Re: A need.....

not-so-techie........I just visualised this as being one thread.....not in any way an across the board thing....
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Old 01-09-2008   #12
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Default Re: A need.....

Bob, I didn't realize that you meant one thread. But I had the same thought. Put something up, replies follow some loose format, no side talk or butt-kissing.
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Old 01-09-2008   #13
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Default Re: A need.....

Ah but we already have as we do have POTW Which I admire for their vision of great taste.
I understand how the judges feel when chooseing from so many entrants. Just to pick one.
for many difrent gender and not just one format only. Like some has spoken already above.
I know you not here to flame on anything but to create clique of one kind.
That would be intersting to see if the Admin would approve.
As you can see their may have been some confusion.
i know their is one fourm that is like that but it only for Wedding Photogapher. So you could not even join a discussion on how to come up with new idea or improvemnt. I think you ned to submit a fourm
and a proof of bussines address and ect.
But get this it's no diffrent than this fourm. Same open fourm but not that thread.
I understand about glamour and nude that you would have to submit some work or they simply ban you from it.
sorry for going on. have a great nite. or morning or afternoon.
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Old 01-10-2008   #14
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Default Re: A need.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartseye View Post
not-so-techie........I just visualised this as being one thread.....not in any way an across the board thing....
I think this is an interesting idea, but would need to be managed tightly. At the moment people put shots up into each forum and ask for C&C.

There is a potential that everyone would just post all the pics to one thread and the other rooms would die and painful death for lack of quality images.

However, there are some other sites that have a similar forums.

Over on DGRIN (SmugMug's forum) for example they have "The Whipping Post" which is a forum where people are supposed to post only images they consider to be their best and that they would include in their portfolio.

This is meant to keep the quality of images high and the critique more detailed and challenging.

It's meant to be a room where your work is really put through the ringer and at the end you come out a better photographer because you learn stuff about your images that you didn't consciously know before.

However, in reality it falls down some and there is usually a post every now and then discussing how the quality of images and critiques has dropped.

It's a good concept and would keep a lot of good images in the other rooms, while allowing a place to go into deeper interpretation of an image.

I don't necessarily agree with controlling the group of potential critiquers, since not everyone would be really qualified to critique all different forms of photography. For example, compare LordV to just about anyone when it comes to macro, but then compare others to Worm for HDR, or Rense for B&W.

I think the better approach is to have good clear guidelines and then moderate the comments strictly.

If there are critiques that don't meet the rules, they should be deleted from threads so that only the quality stays.

Regards,

Peter
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Old 01-10-2008   #15
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Default Re: A need.....

Quote:
I think the better approach is to have good clear guidelines and then moderate the comments strictly.
If there are critiques that don't meet the rules, they should be deleted from threads so that only the quality stays.
Regards,
Peter

Peter makes a good point.I couldn't find the words myself.Having a critique forum similar to the whipping post could work well.
You don't have to be a seasoned photography to see theres something wrong with a picture IE: The color looks too saturated etc.It can also be a learning tool for novices as well;I spoke to a friend who just bought a d80,and mentioned to her about posting some images to get critique,and her reply was I learn from watching others get critiqued.
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Old 01-10-2008   #16
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Default Re: A need.....

I suppose you can start a membership 'Group' and invite only those who agree with you on what, how and why you photograph. There will be no effect on the rest of us since we won't see it. Most of us post somewhat honest critics when we see some sign that there would be a ghost of a chance that it would be appreciated. Certainly I say things to LordV, karls-images and Athena (all better photographers than I) that I would not say to someone who has trouble focusing the camera or understanding why anyone would want to focus their camera. A skill to be appreciated (and one I don't claim) is to be able to post an appropriately helpful critique on a level that will assist rather than confuse. We all do not see alike when it come down to what is worth shooting and how to accomplish that. Closing your forum to only those who you agree with is one way of guaranteeing that you will hear what you want to hear.

There are those on this board who believe the only important critique is the one accompanied by a check for photographs purchased. Their experts are their customers. Others value only that their images are different from what has been done before. To them the worst thing you can say is that the image reminds us of an Ansel Adams shot. Their experts are those who value originality and care nothing for technique. For me, critics that carry weight are those from people who are trying to shoot things like I am trying to shoot and appreciate what is involved in producing such images. It is not really important whether they actually succeed at making such images but that they appreciate the genre. We can share critiques on how we shoot as long as we already agree at least partially on 'why' we shoot. I, for one, make an effort to avoid asking why someone would have shot 'that' even though that is the question that comes to mind most often.

The OP apparently sees a problem with Camel that has been lost on me. I see the incompetent and toady factors as a small price to pay for what benefit I get from other suggestions. I see a system set on silencing those some 'expert' considers to be incompetent to have an opinion to have more downsides than benefits.
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Old 01-10-2008   #17
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Default Re: A need.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougsmit View Post
The OP apparently sees a problem with Camel that has been lost on me. I see the incompetent and toady factors as a small price to pay for what benefit I get from other suggestions. I see a system set on silencing those some 'expert' considers to be incompetent to have an opinion to have more downsides than benefits.
The problem is there for those of us trying to move to the next level. I've had about four or five shoots that I haven't bothered posting in G/E because I'm tired of 800 views and 5 comments, 4 of which are "nice tits!" or "great shot!". Some posters like getting that type of feedback. More power to them. I'm not one of them.

Instead, I've taken to posting them in a private area of my website and getting local critique from other photographers and artists. I prefer to sit with the person and either take notes or have a discussion on the images. I've found that this has really had a big impact on my photography. I haven't extended this beyond the local area but the idea of a "critique web ring" is interesting.

I don't think there really is any solution here. Some of the ideas presented here are nice but have been discussed several times before...with no action or resolution.
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Old 01-10-2008   #18
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Default Re: A need.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian.austin View Post
The problem is there for those of us trying to move to the next level. I've had about four or five shoots that I haven't bothered posting in G/E because I'm tired of 800 views and 5 comments, 4 of which are "nice tits!" or "great shot!".
G/E is a bit of a special case. As I recall there was a discussion there on whether those not posting images had any right to comment. Those who do not shoot G/E or only shoot using models that are not agreeable to being posted online (wife/girlfriend) might have an opinion on lighting and pose but it was made quite clear that such opinions were not welcomed by some. I did not search for "great shot" which I admit is posted more than necessary but the other phrase returns 7 hits currently and all are complaints that that is the only comment their work gets. I also believe that some shots lack comments because people are afraid to say something that could offend ("try more slimming lighting when shooting"). There is also the situation of how to say politely that the main thing to be appreciated about an image was provided by the model and not by the camera operator or that the professional model should be encouraged into other lines of work. Can you point out comments that you consider particularly vacuous? The closest I recall have usually been references to someone wanting to go to Costa Rica where it seems there are a lot of good models.

If this thread was only about a G/E problem, perhaps it should be moved there. Overall I don't see it as a Camel problem so the answer may be yet another KMC style G/E spinoff group for those who agree to post a weekly image as 'dues' for membership. That should get you down to few views and fewer comments.
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Old 01-10-2008   #19
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Default Re: A need.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougsmit View Post
G/E is a bit of a special case. As I recall there was a discussion there on whether those not posting images had any right to comment. Those who do not shoot G/E or only shoot using models that are not agreeable to being posted online (wife/girlfriend) might have an opinion on lighting and pose but it was made quite clear that such opinions were not welcomed by some. I did not search for "great shot" which I admit is posted more than necessary but the other phrase returns 7 hits currently and all are complaints that that is the only comment their work gets.
The "some" that didn't welcome all opinions were statistically immaterial and, for the most part, aren't there any longer. G/E is NOT as special of a case as far as I'm concerned. If anything, there should be an opportunity for MORE feedback there due to the higher volume of lurkers.

The "other phrase" is an example to indicate the attitude rather than the exact words. You know what I mean.

Quote:
I also believe that some shots lack comments because people are afraid to say something that could offend ("try more slimming lighting when shooting"). There is also the situation of how to say politely that the main thing to be appreciated about an image was provided by the model and not by the camera operator or that the professional model should be encouraged into other lines of work.
You lost me here. I really haven't seen many comments targeted at models. The comments there are usually polite and complimentary when directed at models....which is irrelevant to the subject anyway.

Quote:
Can you point out comments that you consider particularly vacuous? The closest I recall have usually been references to someone wanting to go to Costa Rica where it seems there are a lot of good models.
Not from work. I don't visit G/E or KMC from here. Bad form.

Quote:
If this thread was only about a G/E problem, perhaps it should be moved there. Overall I don't see it as a Camel problem so the answer may be yet another KMC style G/E spinoff group for those who agree to post a weekly image as 'dues' for membership. That should get you down to few views and fewer comments.
At the moment, I'm shooting primarily glamour or nudes so that's where my feedback comes from. It's been mentioned by more than a few for other areas.
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Old 01-10-2008   #20
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Default Re: A need.....

Quote:
If this thread was only about a G/E problem
This thread was a suggestion, not a complaint, and had nothing to do with G/E.


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