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Old 02-11-2009   #11
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THe sad thing is I figured out how much it would have cost to give each taxpayer a 10K stimulus check, it was 1.4 trillion based on 2007 numbers. While I wouldnt agree with spending that kind of cash on that, it would have fixed the economy a hell of alot faster than what they are flushing our money down the toilet now. For this year it would probably come to 1.6- 1.8 but still people behind could catch up and, people who arent would spend most of it immediately.
Another thing state could more easily balance their budgets if they didnt have to shell out for unfunded mandates from the feds.
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Old 02-11-2009   #12
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The "jobs" that are being created with this are all government created jobs, not business created jobs. Here's money to build a road - hire people to build the road - roads done, what happens to the people? It's all being designed to make us more dependent on the government to provide jobs. They will be back for more money when this all starts to go away.

700 + billion dollars this year means that 500 + billion dollars next year will be a cut and not to be tolerated.

The limitations being placed on the CEO's bonuses and pay, from companies receiving government money, is has now been proposed that they find a way to limit "all" executive bonuses from other businesses not receiving the money.

Another thing that sticks in my craw is the way the bankers are being villified (sp) over practices that were set up and mandated by people like Barney Frank who was involved with Fannie and Freddie and swore up and down that they were both stable and had no problems. I remember when the banks were being threatened and called racist organizations because they weren't loaning to high risk individuals. I screamed at my wife that this was going to be a problem, back then, didn't know it would be so big though.
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Old 02-11-2009   #13
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Ha, ha, ha, ha....you guys kill me.

Run, run, the sky is falling.....

The sky has been falling for years now, and you guys act like it is the end of the world because we actually might have a real leader in charge. Not big business, not corporate America, not the party of hate and fear....guess what? No more bullshit.

Scared? Confused? Don't know what to do when you are not being told what to believe?

Throw off those shackles of disbelief and free your mind. The head zombie is gone but that does not mean you have to follow him off a cliff. Join the rest of us in trying to fix this mess. Either that, or shut up and get the hell out of the way. You've had your turn. Look at the results.

Now, with the political bent on this forum, I will assume that I will be banned or admonished or some other type of punishment will be administered. Right?
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Old 02-11-2009   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Waldroup View Post
Ha, ha, ha, ha....you guys kill me.

Run, run, the sky is falling.....

The sky has been falling for years now, and you guys act like it is the end of the world because we actually might have a real leader in charge. Not big business, not corporate America, not the party of hate and fear....guess what? No more bullshit.

Scared? Confused? Don't know what to do when you are not being told what to believe?

Throw off those shackles of disbelief and free your mind. The head zombie is gone but that does not mean you have to follow him off a cliff. Join the rest of us in trying to fix this mess. Either that, or shut up and get the hell out of the way. You've had your turn. Look at the results.

Now, with the political bent on this forum, I will assume that I will be banned or admonished or some other type of punishment will be administered. Right?
I wondered when you were going to show up. And I noticed you didn't address one point of anything brought up. You should have gone into marketing!

Seriously, Rick. Have you READ that thing? Why is there $1 billion for Amtrak, a rail system that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years? $400 million for "global warming research"? Exactly what does that "stimulate"? Who gets hired to do that stuff? Bet it's not those out of work auto employees.

If you want to debate, jump in. If you want to market your Messiah (who really doesn't speak much better than Bush without a script, btw ('uhm...oh...well...uhm")), go play with Albert.
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Old 02-11-2009   #15
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Hannity is right! Rush is a prophet! So what is your plan? Tell us like Brian likes to often say---or should I say very often----what you would do to try to cure the economy. What would you try to save or would you prefer more unemployment? Tell me your alternatives. Put your money where your fingers type. Give us who seek the truth your version of the truth. Not the negatives of what is but what should be. Tell us how you would, as Kierkegaard suggests, make that leap to faith and where would you take off from and where would YOU propose to land. Tell us what you would do positively and not only be naysayers. JUST TELL US!

Mel
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Old 02-11-2009   #16
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Hannity is right! Rush is a prophet! So what is your plan? Tell us like Brian likes to often say---or should I say very often----what you would do to try to cure the economy. What would you try to save or would you prefer more unemployment? Tell me your alternatives. Put your money where your fingers type. Give us who seek the truth your version of the truth. Not the negatives of what is but what should be. Tell us how you would, as Kierkegaard suggests, make that leap to faith and where would you take off from and where would YOU propose to land. Tell us what you would do positively and not only be naysayers. JUST TELL US!

Mel
How typical of a liberal.

First, let's look at history here.

In the 1920's, Hoover tried a stimulus plan, using public works, to get the economy moving again after WWI. Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate bridge, and other very large projects were built. It didn't work.

In the 1930's, Roosevelt went a step further. It was a very, very slow recovery, despite what the media is telling us. The only thing that REALLY spurred the recovery was the arrival of WWII and a move to a war economy.

In the 1990's, the Japanese tried the same thing with their "lost decade" of virtually no economic growth. Nothing happened in the long term.

Spending doesn't work. Tax cuts work. Kennedy proved it. Reagan showed that in the 1980's. Even Clinton showed it in the mid-90's with a huge drop in capital gains tax.

My plan? All you're doing is complaining (again) and not tossing out constructive debate points (again) and now it's MY responsibility to come up with a plan?

Okay. Leave it to a liberal to ask a conservative for a plan. Then you'll complain some more, I'm sure.

1. Cut taxes. A lot.
2. Cut spending even MORE. We've had 8+ years of spending waay beyond our means, caused by BOTH sides of the aisles and a President who couldn't find his Veto stamp.
3. Underwrite very specific economic growth projects. Let the banks do the lending but guarantee their loans. Look for someone in the financial community who has a good reputation for investments, put him/her in charge and make them accountable to Congress, not the President.
4. Instead of spending the money on crap that won't affect us (READ THE BILL), increase unemployment benefits beyond the measly $200+ per week so people won't lose their homes. Give them something to put back INTO the economy.
5. Stimulus checks but not until summer. People spend more in nice weather.

Tear it apart and keep on whining....
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Old 02-11-2009   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian.austin View Post
How typical of a liberal.

First, let's look at history here.

In the 1920's, Hoover tried a stimulus plan, using public works, to get the economy moving again after WWI. Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate bridge, and other very large projects were built. It didn't work.

In the 1930's, Roosevelt went a step further. It was a very, very slow recovery, despite what the media is telling us. The only thing that REALLY spurred the recovery was the arrival of WWII and a move to a war economy.

In the 1990's, the Japanese tried the same thing with their "lost decade" of virtually no economic growth. Nothing happened in the long term.

Spending doesn't work. Tax cuts work. Kennedy proved it. Reagan showed that in the 1980's. Even Clinton showed it in the mid-90's with a huge drop in capital gains tax.

My plan? All you're doing is complaining (again) and not tossing out constructive debate points (again) and now it's MY responsibility to come up with a plan?

Okay. Leave it to a liberal to ask a conservative for a plan. Then you'll complain some more, I'm sure.

1. Cut taxes. A lot.
2. Cut spending even MORE. We've had 8+ years of spending waay beyond our means, caused by BOTH sides of the aisles and a President who couldn't find his Veto stamp.
3. Underwrite very specific economic growth projects. Let the banks do the lending but guarantee their loans. Look for someone in the financial community who has a good reputation for investments, put him/her in charge and make them accountable to Congress, not the President.
4. Instead of spending the money on crap that won't affect us (READ THE BILL), increase unemployment benefits beyond the measly $200+ per week so people won't lose their homes. Give them something to put back INTO the economy.
5. Stimulus checks but not until summer. People spend more in nice weather.

Tear it apart and keep on whining....
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Old 02-11-2009   #18
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Have to agree... and that's what could have happened.
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Old 02-11-2009   #19
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I've listened to an unpopular opinion that bad as the recession is, it is not of the magnitude being purported by the president. This "hurry up and do something" rush is just the way to get measures passed without scrutiny. Yes, things have slowed. We still have people shopping, going to work, buying gasoline. One thing is for sure, if we don't add to the debt we won't be figuring how to pay those additional dollars back, atop getting leveled out.

Such double-talk! Banks regularly putting up money 10:1 to the assets on hand, real estate being artificially inflated in value, "Your job is your credit" style loans on homes, pre-approved credit cards mailed on request, Wall St. greed and Ponzy scheme trading, and the oil company manipulation all playing a huge role in the collapse of the US economy.

More than once I've heard the answer is getting the credit markets open again. Extend credit! Get now, pay later! Isn't this the rationale that got us in this fix to start with? Consuming today on tomorrow's value didn't work. Why will a stimulus package that essentially does just this help?
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Old 02-11-2009   #20
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How typical of a Right winger to label every one who disagrees or worse, asks for their plan as a liberal. Well, I will certainly admit that I am more to the left than you but then again, Genghis Khan was probably a liberal also.

I will agree with several of your plan. Surprised? I also agree to cut spending---a lot---but the rub is where will the spending cuts do the most good. Do we cut entitlements to pay more unemployment? Do we cut schools or do we cut roads and highways. Where do we cut?

I will also agree that we underwrite selected projects but which ones? It is easy to say cut but where? Who do you propose to be the new czar to be for the investment expertise? Perhaps someone who got the expertise in the past several years such as Bernie Madoff?

Stimulus checks? They certainly worked the last time.

Whose taxes do you propose cutting? Middle class, lower class, those over $250,000 per year, corporate, estate, gasoline.

So many questions, so many naysayers with no real plans except to cut taxes, get a czar, raise unemployment and generalized spending cuts. Perhaps the military? I am sure that in your mind, you have it all worked out and we unwashed (dare I say) Liberals need to supply all the details so you can rip them apart. I just wish that your civility and detailing of your solution matched your photographic skills.

With that whine, I will let all you Chicken Littles decry the death of the Country while offering nothing but specious plans. I do not understand why the Messiah does not call on you to be the czar of the Republic.

Mel


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