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Old 08-25-2012   #21
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong

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Originally Posted by Kev2010 View Post
Sad really either way.

We're some of his ex team mates saying he used drugs just a few weeks ago? Forget the authorities, why would all his ex team mates be prepared to testify against him?
Because he could still beat them while they were juicing?

And he is only guilty in the court of public opinion. If they had evidence, why wouldnt they just use it and ban him? And by evidence, I dont mean hearsay, I mean "blood tests show....". But no, they say he goes out and gets his blood switched out....
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Old 08-25-2012   #22
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I think people dont like Bonds, for whatever reasons, but they like Lance Armstrong and therefore are unwilling to believe he's guilty.
Sammy Sosa
Mark McGuire
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
None of them ever failed a drug test.
But for some reason we don't like them.
And we think they haven't done much.
Lance we like and think he's done a lot.
They shold all be presumed innocent.
But they aren't.
We've seen so many people fall from grace that maybe we just don't want to see one more. Especially one who many believe has done so much good for cancer survivors, weight loss, etc......it's an interesting human thing.
We will forgive if the good outweighs the bad.......I think thats ok.

Actually, Mark McGuire did, as did Sosa. What they took wasnt a banned substance at the time. They pulled the A-Rod "I thought they were vitamins" routine.
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Old 08-25-2012   #23
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I see it as his teammates were shamed by their PED use and he's getting off free......until now.
That's why they are testifying.
New book coming out by his teammate, let's see....
Whenever someone harps on "never getting caught" or " not ever testing positive" instead of "I never did anything" it makes me suspicious.
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Old 08-25-2012   #24
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I certainly don't care one way or another. I don't hold athletes up to be heroes in any fashion. They are only human, and as such, have feet of clay.
I have much more important issues to concern myself with.

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Old 08-25-2012   #25
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Well, for me, and it's my opinion only, but the UCI (International Cycling Union) has been after him trying to prove he's a cheat. Couldn't do it. The US spent two years trying to prove he's a cheat Couldn't do it. He passed every drug test they threw at him, in competition and out. All of a sudden, based on mystical "witness testimony", he's getting stripped of his titles and medals. Could he have had a way to "pass" all those tests when it's a third party doing the tests and been doping? Sure, why not. But it's just as easy to say that what won him the races was the fact he trained harder than he raced. He knew the key stages inside out and backwards if the stories of his training are to be believed. We want to believe that the "greats" in any sport "Must" be doing something illegal to win. And in some cases, yes, they are. But, does that mean all are? I own his 7 Tour victories on DVD. And yes, they are very impressive and decisive victories. He was head and shoulders above anyone else, so I can see why people would think he doped. But, if other riders are doping, why were the time differences so far out? Unless he was just that much stronger and had a way to beat the tests. For me, the only way I am going to believe he was a cheat is to hear him say it. I think he is innocent as he claims. I mean, I could say I saw any sports personality doping, and what makes me any better or worse a witness than the alleged temmates that USADA has? If it can be proved he was doping, sure crucify him. But all I see and hear is hearsay.
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Old 08-25-2012   #26
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I certainly don't care one way or another. I don't hold athletes up to be heroes in any fashion. They are only human, and as such, have feet of clay.
I have much more important issues to concern myself with.

Jeff
Great.
Thanks for letting us know.
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Old 08-25-2012   #27
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For me, the only way I am going to believe he was a cheat is to hear him say it. But all I see and hear is hearsay.
Only guilty if he admits it...that'd be a new approach for a justice system. That sure...cool.

Multiple teammates poised to testify against him is a little more than hearsay.
Remember they just were able recently to test for HGH. And weren't back then, so "passed" blood tests don't exclude the use of these.
Plus you can cycle testosterone and other steroids to avoid positive tests, there a number of ways to "pass the tests".

I still don't get why there would be multiple people willing to swear under oath that they saw him doing it if it wasn't true.
He tried to get a judge to block USADA from proceeding but that was unsuccessful....I don't know.

Smells fishy all around.
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Old 08-25-2012   #28
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Only guilty if he admits it...that'd be a new approach for a justice system. That sure...cool.

Multiple teammates poised to testify against him is a little more than hearsay.
Remember they just were able recently to test for HGH. And weren't back then, so "passed" blood tests don't exclude the use of these.
Plus you can cycle testosterone and other steroids to avoid positive tests, there a number of ways to "pass the tests".

I still don't get why there would be multiple people willing to swear under oath that they saw him doing it if it wasn't true.
He tried to get a judge to block USADA from proceeding but that was unsuccessful....I don't know.

Smells fishy all around.
I'm sure they were promised immunity or some such. American mentality is to knock down those that get too popular. Someone does well, knock them back down to our levels. And I am sure there are ways to beat the tests. But when you don't know when someone is going to knock on your door demanding a sample, it makes it difficult to cycle your roids I would think. Could be wrong. And I don't disagree that it smells fishy. Problem is, we "have people willing to testify" but we don't have names. All we have are the facts. And the facts say he's never tested positive. The UCI wasn't able to make a case against him. The US Goverment committee couldn't make a case against him. And all of a sudden he is guilty.
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Old 08-25-2012   #29
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He's supposed to be fighter!..By not fighting a charge and giving up on 7 Tour de France titles is an admittance of guilt! It can't be construed any other way! You cannot win a Tour de France on your own..his team mates have admitted to cheating...they are the ones who helped him win....it's a team thing...if nothing else, he's is by default, a cheat!
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Old 08-25-2012   #30
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I'm sure they were promised immunity or some such. American mentality is to knock down those that get too popular. Someone does well, knock them back down to our levels. And I am sure there are ways to beat the tests. But when you don't know when someone is going to knock on your door demanding a sample, it makes it difficult to cycle your roids I would think. Could be wrong. And I don't disagree that it smells fishy. Problem is, we "have people willing to testify" but we don't have names. All we have are the facts. And the facts say he's never tested positive. The UCI wasn't able to make a case against him. The US Goverment committee couldn't make a case against him. And all of a sudden he is guilty.
I think we love people who triumph with hard work and we hate cheaters...it's so hard to tell them apart.
Only one of the last 15 champs of the Tour de France have not been found guilty of PED's according to an article I read today. 1 out of 15.
In a sport so rife with cheaters, on a team (USPScycling team) so full of cheaters, how is it so unfathomable that he cheated?

The more I read, the less I think he's clean.
Time will tell I bet.


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