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Old 05-17-2012   #21
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Default Re: The Terrorists have won. Another photographer arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave R. View Post
Only comment I feel needs to be made is about the airport. Some of you don't seem to think photography around a military installation should be watched carefully.
I find it strange that a photographer (presumably you are ?) should make such a comment.

Here in the (un)free UK, unless there are signs to the contrary (only at one or two sites - mainly manned by the USAF !!), it is quite permissible to take photographs around military installations. Around nearly all military airfields you will find gatherings of spotters and photographers most days.
An example: Airport Spotting Blog Blog Archive Spotting at Brize Norton

The only problems nowadays come from some so-called "security guards" who tend to be poorly trained and have little, or no understanding of the Law concerning photography. Civil/MoD Police and members of the Military are well briefed on what they can and cannot do.

There was some public discontent about the way that parts of the Terrorism Act (2000) were being used by some policemen - mainly when members of the public were photographing policemen doing things that they should not have been doing.
The Law has now been amended and all police forces instructed by the Home Office as to how this Act should be enforced: I think the press announcement below, from the Metropolitan Police (London), shows quite clearly that UK Law on this aspect of Photography is clear and "free".
Metropolitan Police Service - About the Met - Photography advice

Last edited by moonrakerz; 05-17-2012 at 10:13 AM.. Reason: grammatical correction
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Old 05-17-2012   #22
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Default Re: The Terrorists have won. Another photographer arrested

Only people who know the true facts are the ones involved. So, I will not say who is in the wrong. And who is not.

But will say this to the title of the thread. Yes, the terrorists have won. I have witnessed many examples of rights of photographers and general public being stepped on by law enforcement . Most of it unintentional due to ignorance of the law. But remember, when "we" do something wrong even if we did not know it was wrong, we are still accountable. Court says, ignorance of the law is no excuse. So why should it be any different for law enforcement.

My wife has law enforcement personnel in her family. And I gotta tell you, some of the things they can legally do is rediculous. They have been given way too much leeway in what they can do . They no longer need probable cause like they used to if they word their response correctly.

Please understand, I am not saying the law enforcement is bad, that they do things on purpose, or, out to get us.

If the facts of this case is true, then the woman should get every penny of what she is seeking. If not, then she should get what is coming to her .....
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Old 05-17-2012   #23
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Default Re: The Terrorists have won. Another photographer arrested

Back in the mid 70's due to my job at the time, I was to fly at least once a month. I remember my wife would go with me all the way to the door going into the plane. Now you almost have to strip naked and have you personal valuable taken away from you due to them been "suspicions".

We all can thanks those criminal that claim to be defending their faith, those individual are, in my book criminals and are using a religion as an excuse for their criminal acts.

We can thanks them for the hoops we have to jump in other to take a plane.

just my 2 cents

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Old 05-17-2012   #24
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Default Re: The Terrorists have won. Another photographer arrested

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Originally Posted by Benji View Post
Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to leftists.

I'm glad I have several hundred rounds of ammo for my Colt automatic stored away. Perhaps I should go out and get several hundred more rounds.

Benji
How is this leftist? Sounds more of an conservative reaction to me. (Detained under the Patriot Act)

Having a rifle is not a crime, but having a rife near an airport could be considered suspicious or a possible threat. This was a lose, lose situation as if the police did nothing and she ended up doing something heinous, there would have been outrage for lack of action.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave R. View Post
Only comment I feel needs to be made is about the airport. Some of you don't seem to think photography around a military installation should be watched carefully. Even before 9/11 that was frowned upon. I can't help but think had it been a suburban small airport no one would have given a care. A military post is yet another story. If what I have read is true, this women was warned on previous occasions. Sounds to me like she was pushing to see how far she could go. My level of sympathy is bottom drawer for this gal.
Agreed
 
Old 05-17-2012   #25
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Default Re: The Terrorists have won. Another photographer arrested

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Originally Posted by RV View Post

Having a rifle is not a crime, but having a rife near an airport could be considered suspicious or a possible threat. This was a lose, lose situation as if the police did nothing and she ended up doing something heinous, there would have been outrage for lack of action.


Wonder how many people that live within eyesight of an airport have a rifle in their homes? Bet some of them, even have cameas

It is the "what if" mentality that has gotten all of this post 911 blown out of proportion.

This whole situation could have been avoided with a couple of phone calls. Call the range where she said she was to confirm she was there. Call to the school to confim tuition was due, etc,,,...Sure, hold her there, explain why she is being held there and confirm.

But the bottom line is, she has the right to be an activist if she chooses. She has a right to own a gun. She has a right to be on public property. AS long as she is not doing anything wrong, and last time I checked taking photos is not illegal, she should not be bothered. Once she does something wrong, then get her.

We as a nation can not go around saying that we have to do this or that to prevent things from happening. Where will it stop? Against the law to drive, you might blow a building up. Against the law to own a steak knife, you might stab someone. Against the law to own a glass bottle, you might kill someone. Yes, these are all extremes but, once you start the "what if" mentality, the flood gates are open.
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Old 05-17-2012   #26
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Default Re: The Terrorists have won. Another photographer arrested

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Let's see, she was photographing an airport, she had a gun, she had thousands of dollars cash on her, she had been wounded at another location. Did I miss anything?

I am not even a cop and just from reading that article, I am suspicious of her. If it had been only one of those things, I would agree the cops were out of line, with all of them, they certainly had probable cause.
Probable cause of what crime, exactly?

Do you really think that the cop, seeing only her taking pictures, somehow knew everything else you just said a priori?

There was no probable cause whatsoever. I don't think you know what that means.

When I go to the airport I routinely bring my camera and photograph everything. I also have several guns. Does that mean, in your eyes, it's okay for the police to abuse me and violate my rights?
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Old 05-17-2012   #27
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How is this leftist? Sounds more of an conservative reaction to me. (Detained under the Patriot Act)
It's not, but the cops were apparently hassling her based on thinking she was fringe right (which she might be).

In other forums you'll see Benji express his political views, which rarely bleed into here. This was an unusual occurrence. But people like to blame an entire group for the bad behavior of a few, even when the bad actors aren't in that group. It's a good bet these cops were even right wing themselves.

Edit
I actually found this article clearly biased, but not in any left/right manner. For instance, it's left biased by putting in all sorts of disclaimers about her carrying a weapon where most right wingers would wonder what's the issue? And it made sure to emphasize they were hassling her and calling her a teabagger and the left wingers were saying "and?"

But I think the whole point was to find a point of outrage in all of us. We should be saying THE COPS DID WHAT?! and not trying to blame groups because some cops don't know the law.
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Old 05-17-2012   #28
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Wonder how many people that live within eyesight of an airport have a rifle in their homes?
yes, I wonder...not really, but the government knows that already... I know this for a fact. Even unregistered or illegal weapons owners are on the radar of the DHS, FED's, and local LEO's. This has been in effect since the beginning of this century and only improved upon with time.
 
Old 05-17-2012   #29
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Well in reality it is government who has become the terrorist to the people. This has been the case for quite a while even before 9/11. You do know the Patriot Act was written during Clinton and was an act waiting for a crisis to be enacted without public opposition. The government for ever has been classifying citizens as terrorists for years, and who gets that status depends upon which party is in office. With 9/11 they are merely now exercising powers they still do not have under the Constitution, but since a good amount of the public want to feel safe there is no real outcry as there should be.
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Old 05-17-2012   #30
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Well in reality it is government who has become the terrorist to the people. This has been the case for quite a while even before 9/11. You do know the Patriot Act was written during Clinton and was an act waiting for a crisis to be enacted without public opposition. The government for ever has been classifying citizens as terrorists for years, and who gets that status depends upon which party is in office. With 9/11 they are merely now exercising powers they still do not have under the Constitution, but since a good amount of the public want to feel safe there is no real outcry as there should be.
Ok, I bite, but show me some proof of your claims! Or is this just fictionalized propaganda?>


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