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Old 11-04-2008   #121
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I guess it's fair so long as your view wins?

I think we're witnessing a generational shift in tide, away from darkness and toward light, away from hatred and toward love, away from divisiveness and toward unity, away from racism and toward inclusion, away from cynicism and toward hope, away from meanness and toward kindness, away from selfishness and toward compassion, away from fear and toward courage.
It will be interesting to see if it is indeed "inclusion" and "unity" vs the opposite. I've seen nothing but polarization from the front runner while McCain has a record of crossing the aisle quite a bit.

And I'm quoting this to keep the record here. I'll be revisiting these threads in the future to find out how much "hope" and "change" really work once reality sets in. He's already pulling back from his grandiose "I can make your world better" promises. His last few speeches drifted from the "you'll be better in four years" theme to "it's going to be a long hard road and won't happen overnight".

It's all about scaling expectations.
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Old 11-04-2008   #122
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Certainly whoever wins will have a poisoned chalice. The whole world economy is teetering at the moment...
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Old 11-04-2008   #123
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Certainly whoever wins will have a poisoned chalice. The whole world economy is teetering at the moment...
Whoa, whoa, whoa. These aren't the words we've been hearing for the last six months. This is no time to start pulling back the goals here.
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Old 11-04-2008   #124
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Default Re: Barack Obama for President 2008

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I guess it's fair so long as your view wins?
Your words, not mine. I am all for a fair election, either way the cookie crumbles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertP View Post
I think we're witnessing a generational shift in tide, away from darkness and toward light, away from hatred and toward love, away from divisiveness and toward unity, away from racism and toward inclusion, away from cynicism and toward hope, away from meanness and toward kindness, away from selfishness and toward compassion, away from fear and toward courage.
I wouldn't call a generational shift a 50/50 tie. Sounds pretty much down the middle. Though I do see many in the D category moving far left and some moving center. As well as some in the R category moving center and many wanting to move back to conservative values but too scared to venture out and let it possibly allow the far left a road in. I think that this is a fair statement.

Obama has come a long way since he started the campaign. It is a long journey from the far left to almost right of center.

I have heard of a few R's thinking more along the lines of the old R way.....Reagan. And I have no doubt that Reagan R's from the 80's would be horrified to see where the R party has let things go and likewise the Kennedy D's would be locking every current national D up for being a "red". Don't be too harsh on these statements as I am only looking at history and where we have come from and where we are possibly going.

Sorry if I offended anyone.......
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Old 11-04-2008   #125
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. These aren't the words we've been hearing for the last six months. This is no time to start pulling back the goals here.
Well you can't blame the future incumbent for past failings Brian . I think Obama has made some comments about the current economic difficulties so it's not like he's ignoring the issue. John McCain however - hmm, what did he say on the day of Bearing's collapse? Something along the lines of the economy is fundamentally strong. I guess he's just referring to his own economic position .

The whole sub-prime mortgage disaster is affecting all major economies - some even more so than in the US. It's a global problem and will take a while to sort out. I doubt if bank institutions will be allowed to be so lax with their lendings in the future.
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Old 11-04-2008   #126
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Well you can't blame the future incumbent for past failings Brian . I think Obama has made some comments about the current economic difficulties so it's not like he's ignoring the issue.
Sounds like a subtle nudge to not "hope" for too much in the next few years, imo.

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John McCain however - hmm, what did he say on the day of Bearing's collapse? Something along the lines of the economy is fundamentally strong. I guess he's just referring to his own economic position .
Bear Stearns, you mean? I actually agree with him, even today. Fundamentally, the economy still IS strong. Yes, we're in the beginnings of what will be a fairly rough recession. But everyone keeps forgetting that each time we've done this (and despite the media's attempt at doom/gloom, this is a fairly regular cyclical pattern that we've endured before) we've come out stronger and more economically active than ever before. It's not because of the government. It's because of the way the US economy is designed.

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The whole sub-prime mortgage disaster is affecting all major economies - some even more so than in the US. It's a global problem and will take a while to sort out. I doubt if bank institutions will be allowed to be so lax with their lendings in the future.
The bailout is an election year scam, imo. The banks should take it in the shorts, just like any other investor who makes bad decisions. This planet is overdue for some economic corrections and the more we keep propping it up, the worse it's going to be when it finally does come crashing down. No politician is going to fix that.
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Old 11-04-2008   #127
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Bear Stearns, you mean?
Yeah, that one too . Far too many banks going under these days.

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The bailout is an election year scam, imo. The banks should take it in the shorts, just like any other investor who makes bad decisions. This planet is overdue for some economic corrections and the more we keep propping it up, the worse it's going to be when it finally does come crashing down. No politician is going to fix that.
Wow - we agree on something . Personally I'd let the banks go under too. I know that's probably cutting off your nose to spite your face, but the current 'solution' of just giving them endless lines of credit sickens me. What are the US proposals for this now? Are they going to take shares as collateral for any investments, or is it just a case of 'here's a load of money. Now don't do it again' ?
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Old 11-04-2008   #128
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Yeah, that one too . Far too many banks going under these days.



Wow - we agree on something . Personally I'd let the banks go under too. I know that's probably cutting off your nose to spite your face, but the current 'solution' of just giving them endless lines of credit sickens me. What are the US proposals for this now? Are they going to take shares as collateral for any investments, or is it just a case of 'here's a load of money. Now don't do it again' ?

What they did is buy the bad debt with the plan to sell it and make (hopefully) a profit off it. Thing is, its now a buyers market. So the properties wont sell for full value. So its doubtful they will make back what they spent, let alone make a profit.

And until the economy gets going again, then those properties are just going to sit vacant.
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Old 11-04-2008   #129
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What they did is buy the bad debt with the plan to sell it and make (hopefully) a profit off it. Thing is, its now a buyers market. So the properties wont sell for full value. So its doubtful they will make back what they spent, let alone make a profit.

And until the economy gets going again, then those properties are just going to sit vacant.
The intent behind the plan was for the government to hold the properties for a while anyway. It does two things:

1. Keeps them off of the market, increasing the likelihood that other properties will sell for higher prices (supply lower = higher costs).
2. Allows the market to stabilize and the government to recover the money later when the value of the property is higher. Longer always = better in real estate appreciation.

One of my biggest concerns with this is that the more you mix money with bureaucracy, the more likely it is you'll see corruption. It's going to be awfully tempting for a GS-10 managing some properties to see an opportunity to increase his current $60K/year salary into some significant $$.
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Old 11-04-2008   #130
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Default Re: Barack Obama for President 2008

It's now official:

President Barack Obama

Yes, we can.

Yes, we did.


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