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Old 01-27-2010   #1
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Default Mamiya gurus

Would there be any real noticeable benefit in moving from a 645 Pro TL to a 67 format outside the larger negative? I get great results from the current setup, and also have a 645E that I no longer use.

The investment in going to all new body and lenses is not a concern of mine in case anyone is wondering.

and this is my first post here, might as well as contribute a little if I can, even if it's asking first.

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Old 01-28-2010   #2
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Default Re: Mamiya gurus

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Originally Posted by mtsusean View Post
Would there be any real noticeable benefit in moving from a 645 Pro TL to a 67 format outside the larger negative? I get great results from the current setup, and also have a 645E that I no longer use.

The investment in going to all new body and lenses is not a concern of mine in case anyone is wondering.

and this is my first post here, might as well as contribute a little if I can, even if it's asking first.
I take it you are talking about the Mamiya RZ 67 Right? If so the biggest difference is- 645- 15 shots per 120 roll RZ67-12 shots per roll
Rz-rotate the back 645- flip the camera.
Rz- has available a 6x6 SQ back and I believe a 645 back.
645 Body only a 645 back.

But the RZ being bigger and heavier does require a sturdier tripod or more muscles if you are hand holding. Larry
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Old 01-29-2010   #3
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Default Re: Mamiya gurus

Correction RZ 67- 10 shots per 120 roll. Larry
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Old 02-02-2010   #4
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Default Re: Mamiya gurus

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Originally Posted by mtsusean View Post
Would there be any real noticeable benefit in moving from a 645 Pro TL to a 67 format outside the larger negative? I get great results from the current setup, and also have a 645E that I no longer use.

The investment in going to all new body and lenses is not a concern of mine in case anyone is wondering.

and this is my first post here, might as well as contribute a little if I can, even if it's asking first.

The question is, do you miss something in your 645 system?

The only difference I can see (if we ignore the larger film format) is, that 67s mostly use lenses with leaf shutters (apart from the Pentax 67), which makes fill flash in broad daylight much easier. But even for the Mamiya 645 you can always add a leaf shutter lens, espeically for that purpose.

Otherwise I prefer the 645 system, because of its portability. It is hardly bigger or heavier, than my DSLR system and also the lenses are very good. On top you can get really fast lenses for M645 (80/1.9 200/2.8 300/2., which are not available for larger formats (again, except for the Pentax 67, for which some gigantic lenses are available). The only nuisance is, that using a 645 in portrait orientation with the waist level finder is neck breaking.

Ben
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Old 02-04-2010   #5
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IMHO, the ONLY benefit is the larger negative. But that can be a significant benefit. Up to you what matters. To me, 645 is a good tradeoff if one doesn't also wish to invest in a pro-caliber 35mm system. If one goes 6x7, there are times when, for the sake of portability and reach and/or handling speed, you will need a smaller faster-handling system such as 35mm (and/or 35mm digital). You may well be able to do without 35mm if you are in 645. Most cannot if they are mainly invested in 6x7.
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Old 02-07-2010   #6
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I have been using the RB and RZ series of of 6x7 cameras in my studio since their introduction on the market. The early model RBs were built like brick outhouses and in many studios they were the system of choice because of their reliability and interesting selections of lenses which included a 150mm soft focus portrait lens, a 140mm tack-sharp macro with a floating element and a perspective control lens which is great for architectural work. As hand held cameras for wedding assignments, they were never my favorite system- the camera is bulky and has a poor center of gravity especially when equipped with on camera flash equipment. The footage scales are difficult to read for fast zone focusing and there was not automatic masking in the viewfinder to clearly define horizontal and vertical compositions.

Then came the RZ member of the species- at fist they just looked like deluxe versions of their RB counterparts with automatic film advance/shutter cocking features and a great masking system in the viewing screen. Sadly, the first issue of this camera was a nightmare! I had 3 or them that spent more time in the repair shop than in the studio. There were film winding issues, jamming problems and somehow, even if the camera would just fall over on a table top, it would sustain some mechanical damage. The newer units are more refined but still are rather clumsy when hand held, even with its durable and nicely designed hand grip in place. The accessory motor drive had too much torque for the winding mechanism and would end up shredding the gear train in the camera- the motor was more like something you would find in an electric drill. A prism is mandatory for all the models, that is, for convenience of operation.

By RZs are now digitized. For medium format action shooting, I prefer my Hasselblad system in terms of fast handling and a great center of gravity, even with flash equipment attached. For folks who want to shoot action on a full 6x7 negatives, I suggest trying to find a 6x7 Pentax. Its like a jumbo 35mm SLR and is pretty nimble for its size. Don't drop this one on you foot- it is heavy but well balanced. The lenses are of fine quality and 40x60 prints of great quality are easily made with films such as Portra 160. There are no interchangeable backs but that can be an advantage because the pressure plate on the back door is not as vulnerable to misalignment as in some of the systems with detachable backs. You can use 120 or 220 films in theses cameras.

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Old 03-02-2010   #7
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Default Re: Mamiya gurus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Shapiro View Post
I have been using the RB and RZ series of of 6x7 cameras in my studio since their introduction on the market. The early model RBs were built like brick outhouses and in many studios they were the system of choice because of their reliability and interesting selections of lenses which included a 150mm soft focus portrait lens, a 140mm tack-sharp macro with a floating element and a perspective control lens which is great for architectural work. As hand held cameras for wedding assignments, they were never my favorite system- the camera is bulky and has a poor center of gravity especially when equipped with on camera flash equipment. The footage scales are difficult to read for fast zone focusing and there was not automatic masking in the viewfinder to clearly define horizontal and vertical compositions.

Then came the RZ member of the species- at fist they just looked like deluxe versions of their RB counterparts with automatic film advance/shutter cocking features and a great masking system in the viewing screen. Sadly, the first issue of this camera was a nightmare! I had 3 or them that spent more time in the repair shop than in the studio. There were film winding issues, jamming problems and somehow, even if the camera would just fall over on a table top, it would sustain some mechanical damage. The newer units are more refined but still are rather clumsy when hand held, even with its durable and nicely designed hand grip in place. The accessory motor drive had too much torque for the winding mechanism and would end up shredding the gear train in the camera- the motor was more like something you would find in an electric drill. A prism is mandatory for all the models, that is, for convenience of operation.

By RZs are now digitized. For medium format action shooting, I prefer my Hasselblad system in terms of fast handling and a great center of gravity, even with flash equipment attached. For folks who want to shoot action on a full 6x7 negatives, I suggest trying to find a 6x7 Pentax. Its like a jumbo 35mm SLR and is pretty nimble for its size. Don't drop this one on you foot- it is heavy but well balanced. The lenses are of fine quality and 40x60 prints of great quality are easily made with films such as Portra 160. There are no interchangeable backs but that can be an advantage because the pressure plate on the back door is not as vulnerable to misalignment as in some of the systems with detachable backs. You can use 120 or 220 films in theses cameras.

Ed
Thanks for the information, i am just in age of your son or maybe younger, and i never shoot with film medium format, even i don't consider those disposal cameras as true cameras, so i came very late and i bought 2 film cameras which are RZ67 Pro II and Hasselblad 501cm, i love the Hassy because it is light, i bought RZ to have 6x7 format and in fact i am not so into Pentax, i saw that Pentax with one great experienced landscape photographer, and even he doing amazing with this camera i don't feel i really like it but that doesn't matter, i have many digital cameras to use outdoor not not necessary i will use my RZ outdoor all the time, also i shouldn't make the weight as an issue because i am also planning to buy a large format, i always come late into photography [film] so i just will have my time and enjoy it.
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Old 03-02-2010   #8
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Default Re: Mamiya gurus

The 645s are great cameras. In most cases the will do the job of a 6x7. Where I fine the difference is when I make very large prints, say 24x30, 30x40 and 40x60. With the latter size, U prefer to go to 4x5 negative. For those who have an interest if soft focus work, the Mamiyaflex 645 can be used with a Mamiya-Sekor SF (Soft Focus) lens that works on the same principle as the 150 SF for the RB and the RZ.

Before the digital era, I used to retouch my negatives in the old fashioned method, with dues and pencils. For that reason the 6x7(cm.) and the 4x5 negatives were easier to retouch that the 645, 6x6 and smaller negatives. There were people who could retouch 35mm negatives but that is nearly impossible for the average retoucher. Nowadays, if you scan your film. effective retouching can be done in post production printing methods without too many problems.

In rugged conditions, I would recommend a Pentax 6x7. It looks like a 35mm SLR on steroids and is very durable and can stand up to hard use in the field, that is, if you still want that big 6X7 negative. The Tackomar lenses for that camera are very sharp and come in a variety of focal lengths.

During the period between 1965 and 1980, medium format became the most popular format among professional photographers- the big negative and the ideal format (for the 8x10 aspect ratio) was in demand by portraitists, wedding photographers, industrial and commercial workers.
There were all kinds of press cameras that showed up on the market place. Some names to research are: Koni-Omega Rapid, Linhoff Press 23, Mamiya Press, Horseman 23, Pentax 6x7, Graflex Pacemaker 23 w/ a 6x7 back, Fugi 6X8, Optika, Plaubel and more. Soem of theses were SLRs and others were range finder models. If you add on the plethora of 6x6 SLRs and TLRs such as Rolleiflex, Minolta, Yashica, Ciro, and Mamiyaflex Pro C, there are hundreds of cameras to choose from, if you want to get into medium format. Soem of theses have view camera type movements and the Rollei line of cameras fro the 60s and 70s are razor sharp. If you have a 6x6 Rillei you can shoot to the 6x4.5 format composition by leaving some room around your subject or go full 6x6 for square prints.
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Old 03-02-2010   #9
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Default Re: Mamiya gurus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Shapiro View Post
The 645s are great cameras. In most cases the will do the job of a 6x7. Where I fine the difference is when I make very large prints, say 24x30, 30x40 and 40x60. With the latter size, U prefer to go to 4x5 negative. For those who have an interest if soft focus work, the Mamiyaflex 645 can be used with a Mamiya-Sekor SF (Soft Focus) lens that works on the same principle as the 150 SF for the RB and the RZ.

Before the digital era, I used to retouch my negatives in the old fashioned method, with dues and pencils. For that reason the 6x7(cm.) and the 4x5 negatives were easier to retouch that the 645, 6x6 and smaller negatives. There were people who could retouch 35mm negatives but that is nearly impossible for the average retoucher. Nowadays, if you scan your film. effective retouching can be done in post production printing methods without too many problems.

In rugged conditions, I would recommend a Pentax 6x7. It looks like a 35mm SLR on steroids and is very durable and can stand up to hard use in the field, that is, if you still want that big 6X7 negative. The Tackomar lenses for that camera are very sharp and come in a variety of focal lengths.

During the period between 1965 and 1980, medium format became the most popular format among professional photographers- the big negative and the ideal format (for the 8x10 aspect ratio) was in demand by portraitists, wedding photographers, industrial and commercial workers.
There were all kinds of press cameras that showed up on the market place. Some names to research are: Koni-Omega Rapid, Linhoff Press 23, Mamiya Press, Horseman 23, Pentax 6x7, Graflex Pacemaker 23 w/ a 6x7 back, Fugi 6X8, Optika, Plaubel and more. Soem of theses were SLRs and others were range finder models. If you add on the plethora of 6x6 SLRs and TLRs such as Rolleiflex, Minolta, Yashica, Ciro, and Mamiyaflex Pro C, there are hundreds of cameras to choose from, if you want to get into medium format. Soem of theses have view camera type movements and the Rollei line of cameras fro the 60s and 70s are razor sharp. If you have a 6x6 Rillei you can shoot to the 6x4.5 format composition by leaving some room around your subject or go full 6x6 for square prints.
Too late daddy, i just got Mamiya RZ67 Pro II and Hasselblad 501CM, even i bought them used i don't want to sell them now to go with Pentax67, or another medium format of 6x4.5, at least i have Hasselblad H3DII-39 which is one of the best digital medium format out there and it is 6x4.5 so no need for another 6x4.5, even i have Holga 120WPC for some dreamy fun 6x12 shots.
About large format, i see also many recommend 4x5, but really i am just or only looking for 8x10 whatever that 4x5 is great enough and more popular, just i like to go larger and larger and i don't care much about printing, and i don't have any size limit for printing, i may go for billboards or sign buildings size, so i should be ready for any size, and i know those 6x7 or 6x9 or even 4x5 LF can be enough for so large prints, but the most i hear about people saying how those 8x10 or larger blow away of those 6x6/6x7 then i can imagine how great that 8x10 can be over 4x5, the larger the better.
Now i am worry how to develop my films, i just shoot one film roll so far only and i sent it to lab but it was gone due to my bad storage and heat, but next time i will make sure to save them in cold dark place from load to develop, but i will develop B&W film only and not color because some members on another popular forum told me that although color film is possible to be developed at home but it is tricky and more difficult than B&W and i am sure they have a reason and they are experts, and really i don't want to have difficult to develop all my film, so i will just do B&W and i hope to find a place which can explain and show the steps procedures of processing from A to Z in details even with one developing methods, all those youtube videos are short and not showing in details from A to Z and i really want to have it at least for first time so i can be as accurate with time and temp and mix[that is for negatives rolls, still not sure about positives and slides or paper and more]


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