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Old 09-24-2005   #11
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I know that some mags are still shooting 8x10's! I'm pretty sure Bon Apetit is.

What fries me is the fact that in the old days, I marked up my film, polaroids and processing costs. Plus, film being slower to work with (speaking 4x5 primarily), I got less done in a day, which meant more days of work. Now, I spend THOUSANDS of dollars to work less and make less. I don't get it!

In my food photography, I don't think film will make up any ground, ever. I recently upgraded to 10.4 on my mac and my camera shooting software didn't like it. I didn't find this out until the day of the shoot, so I shot to CF card, then "sneakernet"ed it to the mac. My client complained that the extra 15 seconds was too slow. There is no way they'll accept 60 seconds - 3 minutes processing time on polaroids any more. And waiting for the messenger to come back with film....THEN scan it. Ain't gonna happen.

As far as shooting the high school seniors (yes, those are my 2 primary markets), digital allows me to produce more images, faster, which means more customers in a day and more income. Those are good things when my cameras are my only source of income.

I agree that from our perspective, upgradable cameras would be cool. Not for the stockholders, though. Remember, we're not buying film anymore....at least alot of us arent'. I haven't shot a roll in almost 3 years, give or take. That hurts the film companies. Fuji and Kodak turned to digital cameras. Even those that didn't offer film, like Nikon and Canon will not offer a cheap upgrade path in the near future. They are making money hand over fist off of us, and once they've had it that way, they'll never want to change.

The good thing about where we are right now in the technology is that it is good....really good. Will it get better? Of coarse. However, my Minolta RD-175 sucked on 8x10 or larger. That camera had to go. I'm shooting with a 10d for people right now. It's "good" but not "great". I'm getting closer, though. The 5D (yes, I'm buying one as soon as I possibly can!) will (hopefully)be able to do 30x40's with no problem. This means that the NEED to upgrade will come less frequently. I know there are those that just have to have the latest and greatest, and if they have the budget, great. Good for them. I do not. With the 10d, I decided to skip the 20d and wait for the next generation. I will buy the 5D and will probably skip two generations. Maybe more. I think digital is now to the point that film was, or at least really close. The quality is there, so the only reason to upgrade is if it breaks, or it doesn't fit your business needs. If I had the funds to buy a 1DsII, I would, and would probably never need to replace it until it broke. I can't imagine, with my business as it is now, ever needing more quality than that. Canon is hard at work though, coming up with something new in an effort to change my mind, and take more of my money.
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Old 09-26-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalstorm
Sara,
I'm guessing that you didn't fire off nearly as many frames with film as you do with digital.* Digital cameras are built as well as any of the old stuff.* The 20D is rated for 100,000 frames and the 1 series is rated for 200,000 before shutter replacement.* 100,000 frames is 4,167 rolls of 24exp film.* I estimate I have shot under a couple of hundred rolls in my lifetime.* I've shot 5000 digital images in the last couple of years.
Rich

develop 4200 rolls of film and the cost of the digital camera is not really that large in the whole scheme of things.* Lenses, storage, etc will take some $ too.
I don't know...just this year already I've probably shot over 1000 pictures. Not all keepers, not by a long shot. We buy our film at Costco because of how much I shoot, and if I'm on a roll (hehe...sorry, couldn't help it), I can easily use 36 shots in a day, and would do more if I didn't make myself quit. Now, the cost of developing the NON keepers is one of the many reasons I have for wanting to get the digital. The thing is though, cameras like my FIL have that he got back in the '70's and used extensively (he was a photographer for a private eye as well as a police department for many years) is still going strong and probably will last through me getting the 20D, wearing out the 20D, and then wearing out whatever next camera I get...if it doesn't also outlast ME wearing out! It is nice to think about how much it is I have shot this year and how that would in theory give me 100 years of shooting, but I also know that I've been holding myself back. I have taken hardly any pictures the last few months because I always think that if I just wait till I have my digital then I won't have to bother with scanning it and then I don't take the picture. I KNOW that I'll be taking more shots when I have my digital, especially when I've got the 70-200 lens as well!

You are certainly right that developing pictures, especially ones that didn't turn out the way you wanted them to, can justify getting a digital! I'm SO tired of developing stuff, I know that I could probably have saved enough for the 20D just by not taking any pictures for a year, but I can't do that.

Anyway...I think I'm agreeing with you here, just in a confusing sort of way. What do you expect, I got about 3 1/2 hours of sleep last night and it is almost midnight already. I'm going to bed. I have school tomorrow...first time in I won't tell you how many years! I'm starting Japanese, and am very excited!

Sara
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Old 10-07-2005   #13
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It's so hard to say where the medium and large format film cameras will stand in 10 years. Tho I do own a 20D, I am still a proud owner of a Mamiya Pro. I would also love to own a large format some day. This for me is all in the realm of hobbying. It would be such a shame if the costs of darkroom supplies do elevate, as I heard many suspect they wil,l due to lack of demand in the digital world. Even tho I appreciate the quick results of the digicams, I still have a love for working in a darkroom.

So I don't know, but I'm hoping for film die hards to keep the film hobby still going so I can have my cake and eat it too
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Old 10-07-2005   #14
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My first digital a 10d my 2nd a 1Ds2 my next camera? thinking of getting a film camera
I still miss my old pentax k1000 a tottally manual camera wth a simplicity I miss and I loved the pictures it captured.
But I would use it as a second camera just because of the price of film
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Old 10-07-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa
It's so hard to say where the medium and large format film cameras will stand in 10 years. Tho I do own a 20D, I am still a proud owner of a Mamiya Pro. I would also love to own a large format some day. This for me is all in the realm of hobbying. It would be such a shame if the costs of darkroom supplies do elevate, as I heard many suspect they wil,l due to lack of demand in the digital world. Even tho I appreciate the quick results of the digicams, I still have a love for working in a darkroom.

So I don't know, but I'm hoping for film die hards to keep the film hobby still going so I can have my cake and eat it too
Is it mainly black & white or color that you develop? I ask because color is a lot more hassle and expense and you don't get to see the prints coming up in the developer as you could with black and white.

One thing that pushed me out of photography for years is that I had had it with the limitations of black and white and the operating expense of color photography was too much to enjoy. I didn't start getting into photography again until the image quality of semi-affordable digital equipment become satisfactory to a hobbyist. I carefully weigted the costs between film and digital and the quality I could expect from digital before deciding on a Nikon Coolpix 950 in June 1999. I already had the computer equipment and printer. I figured that my Coolpix would pay for itself after something like 2-3000 shots, which I expected to take a few years to complete. Even though I made a special effort not to inflate the exposure rate with bracketing or other duplicate shots, I blew through those 3000 shots in one year.

I still have the 950, which I use as a backup and my wife uses when she needs a camera, but the battery door and the power mode switch had to be replaced under warranty and they really need to be replaced again, especially the battery door. Right now, library tape is holding the batteries in place.
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Old 10-07-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellette
I don't know...just this year already I've probably shot over 1000 pictures.* Not all keepers, not by a long shot.* We buy ... Sara
I didn't realize you haven't made the switch to digital yet.* If ruggedness is a concern, I'd go with a 1 series in the Canon line.* 200,000 frame rated shutter, etc.* Though a 1200 frames a year on a 20D would be nothing.* I've at about 3000 frames on mine in 11 months and I consider myself a light shooter.* Looks like you spend about $500 a year in film and processing.* Part of will go away when you make the move.

Some others here could offer up the pro line in their preferred brand to also consider.* I'm a Canon shooter so I'm not totally up on the other brands and don't you to exclude them based on my loyalty.

Things to consider when moving to digital will be safe storage of the files.*

And to actually answer your intial question: I don't think film will ever go away but I don't think there will be any surge in popularity for it either. Technology will eventually capture most of the market and leave the purests with their film. There's a reason my I don't listen to my vinyl disks anymore. The purest audiophile will tell you with the right equipment, the analog recordings sound better. But I still listen to the CD because it pretty darn good and it's sure convenient being digtial and small.

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Old 10-07-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoundrel1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa
It's so hard to say where the medium and large format film cameras will stand in 10 years. Tho I do own a 20D, I am still a proud owner of a Mamiya Pro. I would also love to own a large format some day. This for me is all in the realm of hobbying. It would be such a shame if the costs of darkroom supplies do elevate, as I heard many suspect they wil,l due to lack of demand in the digital world. Even tho I appreciate the quick results of the digicams, I still have a love for working in a darkroom.

So I don't know, but I'm hoping for film die hards to keep the film hobby still going so I can have my cake and eat it too
Is it mainly black & white or color that you develop?* I ask because color is a lot more hassle and expense and you don't get to see the prints coming up in the developer as you could with black and white.

One thing that pushed me out of photography for years is that I had had it with the limitations of black and white and the operating expense of color photography was too much to enjoy.* I didn't start getting into photography again until the image quality of semi-affordable digital equipment become satisfactory to a hobbyist.* I carefully weigted the costs between film and digital and the quality I could expect from digital before deciding on a Nikon Coolpix 950 in June 1999.* I already had the computer equipment and printer.* I figured that my Coolpix would pay for itself after something like 2-3000 shots, which I expected to take a few years to complete.* Even though I made a special effort not to inflate the exposure rate with bracketing or other duplicate shots, I blew through those 3000 shots in one year.*

I still have the 950, which I use as a backup and my wife uses when she needs a camera, but the battery door and the power mode switch had to be replaced under warranty and they really need to be replaced again, especially the battery door.* Right now, library tape is holding the batteries in place.
I did take one color class at school, which I really enjoyed and loved the results, but for me, it's black and white for my home darkroom. I enjoyed color, but I prefer to leave that to the labs.

Since I have a lousy printer with no funds for a good one in the near future, I use a prolab for when I want the hard copy. This place has great prices and I'm not sure I could actually print myself for what they charge... or that it would be worth all the time trying to calibrate monitor to print since I'm not real savvy there.

I think film will stick around for quite some time, but as digital overwhelmes the market, it will become more costly to have a hobbyist dark room.
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Old 10-08-2005   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalstorm
There's a reason my I don't listen to my vinyl disks anymore. The purest audiophile will tell you with the right equipment, the analog recordings sound better. But I still listen to the CD because it pretty darn good and it's sure convenient being digtial and small.
This doesn't necessarily apply to photography, but LP popularity sank so fast after CDs were introduced partly because the recording industry had let the quality of their product slip badly. Too often, LPs had serious surface defects that introduced skips and the masters were allowed to wear too much between replacements. Under ideal conditions an LP may approach a CD in audio quality but most LPs fell far short of that ideal at the time.
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Old 10-08-2005   #19
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Sorry I'm just getting to this!

Yeah, the only digital camera I have is in my phone. The 20D is as high as I can afford...and is almost higher than I should but I feel I need to go to the 20D instead of some of the other cameras because of where I'll be using it and what I'll be using it for. I did a ton of research and though I'd LOVE to go pro level camera, I can't, so the 20D seems to be the best fit. Plus, since I have the Rebel I'm kind of used to Canon anyway...I'd like the least amount of time spent on a learning curve from going digital as I possibly can so I can get out there shooting good pictures as soon as possible.

I look forward to not having to develop pictures I don't want to develop. Even the pictures I take for the families in the hospital...I'm only going to print out 4 pictures per family and give them the rest of the shoot on a CD so they can print them out whenever they want to. I only want to print pictures if I actually WANT them...not because they happened to be stuck on the same roll of film as something I really like.

Thanks for your reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalstorm

I didn't realize you haven't made the switch to digital yet.* If ruggedness is a concern, I'd go with a 1 series in the Canon line.* 200,000 frame rated shutter, etc.* Though a 1200 frames a year on a 20D would be nothing.* I've at about 3000 frames on mine in 11 months and I consider myself a light shooter.* Looks like you spend about $500 a year in film and processing.* Part of will go away when you make the move.

Some others here could offer up the pro line in their preferred brand to also consider.* I'm a Canon shooter so I'm not totally up on the other brands and don't you to exclude them based on my loyalty.

Things to consider when moving to digital will be safe storage of the files.*

And to actually answer your intial question:* I don't think film will ever go away but I don't think there will be any surge in popularity for it either.* Technology will eventually capture most of the market and leave the purests with their film.* There's a reason my I don't listen to my vinyl disks anymore.* The purest audiophile will tell you with the right equipment, the analog recordings sound better.* But I still listen to the CD because it pretty darn good and it's sure convenient being digtial and small.

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Old 10-09-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoundrel1728
Warning: Off-topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalstorm
There's a reason my I don't listen to my vinyl disks anymore. The purest audiophile will tell you with the right equipment, the analog recordings sound better. But I still listen to the CD because it pretty darn good and it's sure convenient being digtial and small.
This doesn't necessarily apply to photography, but LP popularity sank so fast after CDs were introduced partly because the recording industry had let the quality of their product slip badly. Too often, LPs had serious surface defects that introduced skips and the masters were allowed to wear too much between replacements. Under ideal conditions an LP may approach a CD in audio quality but most LPs fell far short of that ideal at the time.
I'm with you here, but tell that to the purists who buy tube amps, etc and masters to listen to their LPs. Or are you one of those purists?


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