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Old 08-16-2016   #11
Alpaca
 
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

Thanks Jim,

I've got a tripod - Gitzo Mountaineer if memory serves, light meter is Sekonic L 398 CdS from my days with Canon FD. It's not spot, just incident & reflection, but it's been great since the early 80's!
Another question, when do you need bag bellows? If I go for it, I'll be looking for a 135mm or even a 90 mm lens.
Many thanks again,
M.A.
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Old 08-16-2016   #12
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

Hi Golem,
Thanks for that info. I'd thought of a Nikon 20mm f2.8 with just the purpose that you suggest in mind - cropping off the foreground that is. No manipulation of the focus plane though with that of course....although the D o F will be pretty big anyway. And a lot cheaper - used 20mm 299, new 24mm PCE 1465- never seen one used
I think I need to have a serious think about it all. One thing about 5x4 is the weight on an airplane. Don't know where you are but in the UK the cabin weight limit is only 10kg and theirs no way I'd put it all in the hold luggage - it's bad enough having to put the tripod in there.
Regards,
M.A.
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Old 08-16-2016   #13
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

Speaking of oversize image circles, due to it's f/8
spec, that Fuji 135 could be a wide angle for 5x7
but if it is really very affordable then that is highly
unlikely. A 135/8.0 of "Super Angulon" style would
be huge and heavy and expensive.

The other hint I take from it's f/8.0 spec is that it
may be a process camera optic, which means you
have little or no use of your camera movements.

Process lenses are verrry sharp at near distances
but have very small image circles at infinity, as a
process lens is designed for 1:1 to about 1: 8. They
are generally physically quite shallow, and never
fast, and so they offer a rather compact lens for a
light weight field camera, but 4x5 usually requires
about 180mm if you want any movements. 180mm
on 4x5 is similar to 55mm on a FF 35mm. The 135
you're considering is like a slow "Pancake 40". 135
lenses with modestly oversize image circles can be
as fast as f/4.5, very compact, and very affordable.

Don't know which Fuji you're looking at but process
lenses often include "Apo" in the name, and almost
always a shallow build and a max aperture rather
slow for the FL involved.
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Old 08-17-2016   #14
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

Hi Golem,

My mistake, I got mixed up between a Nikon 135 f5.6 W and a Fujinon 90 f8 SW.
They are both at

Lenses Large Format/Panoramic Range - Ffordes Photographic

What is that lens board the Nikon is on?

Regards,
M.A.
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Old 08-18-2016   #15
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXTHEDOG View Post
Hi Golem,

My mistake, I got mixed up between a Nikon 135 f5.6 W and a Fujinon 90 f8 SW.
They are both at

Lenses Large Format/Panoramic Range - Ffordes Photographic

What is that lens board the Nikon is on?

Regards,
M.A.
Thaz a Sinar system lens. It's for a completely
integrated monorail view camera system. You
don't want that. Even if you got it for free you
couldn't use it. It is as dedicated to a Sinar as
a Canon EF lens is dedicated to a Canon SLR.

Even if you removed the optics to try to use
them for another purpose you'd have only the
glass, no shutter.
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Old 08-18-2016   #16
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

It's unlikely you can get a bag bellows for a wooden
field camera. It's mainly for a 65 or 75mm on a studio
monorail camera. Studio cameras usually have a boxy
bellows that jams up at short FLs when movements
are attempted. So you swap out the box bellows for a
bag bellows.

Field camera generally have a tapered bellows which
does not jam up with shorter FLs down to about 75mm
if movements are not extreme. Usually they collapse
enuf to use a 65mm, but without movements, which is
OK for 4x5 cuz a 65 barely covers 4x5.

While a tapered bellows is not as free to move as the
bag bellows, it's usually all you need for a 90/8.0. It's
been a while, but I don't recall switching from taper
to bag for my 90, only for shorter FLs. I was fortunate
to have interchangeable tapered bellows and bag for
my monorail. Usually a system with interchangeable
bellows doesn't offer a taper, only box and bag.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure if you realize that view camera lenses
are not like a range of SLR lenses. For SLR lenses the
format coverage obviously is the same all across the
line up of lenses, regardless of FL. With view camera
lens lines, all the lenses in a given line are like scale
models of each other, so the angle of coverage never
changes, therefore the size of the circle of coverage
does change with FL.

A "given line" refers not to brand name, as would be
the case with SLR lenses. It refers to model name.
IOW "Schneider" is not a model name, but Symmar
and Super Angulon are. With Rodenstock the same
designs would bear the model names Sironar and
Grandagon. With the Japanese lenses it's often not
such "verbose" model names but simply a letter or
two added to the brand name. And I am not familiar
with that system. There are basically five types of
view and press camera lenses and you get to know
them more by shape and speed than by names.
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Old 08-18-2016   #17
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

Hi Golem,

Many thanks for the heads up on that lens & board. I kinda suspected that there might be something amiss.
Thanks for the guidance on the question of bag bellows, the Shen Hao and one of those lenses I mentioned might be ok subject to the lens board on the Shen Hao.
Trying to track down some new film holders - 6 Graflex for 39 sounds ok but will they light tight? What do you think of used film holders ?
Also will probably need a changing bag - good ole Amazon -37. Not as rare as I thought, though the only new film holders I've seen are in U.S.

Many thanks again.
M.A.
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Old 08-19-2016   #18
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

Used film holders should be available, like used
bicycles or guitars, meaning every condition from
almost new to hopelessly used up. Just get good
clean ones, hardly used, from some hobbyist who
"meant to get into it but never got around to it".

Some film holders are glued together and some
are screwed together. The screwed together are
preferable. They have a better light trap for the
passageway where the darkslide is pulled out and
pushed back in.

You don't need a changing bag if you have a day's
worth of holders. You load them at home in your
darkroom. You WILL have a darkroom. There are
no daylight tanks for sheetfilm like there are for
rollfilm. Yes, there is one, just one, and it is not
for quality work. It's for down-n-dirty press work
that hasn't been a sheetfilm job since over 60 yrs
ago. It is very tempting to think you can travel
light with 6 holders, a changing bag, and a box
of film. It works if you are unshakeably OCD, so
OCD that you'll never screw up the procedural
order of the changing bag routine. IMNSHO who
ever can be THAT level of OCD will always make
technically flawless toadally boring images.

Much depends on the definition of "a day's worth"
of film holders. You do NOT document your day,
nor record everything that intrigues your eye if
you don't have three dozen holders and a donkey.
You set out to make a few negatives that day, to
keep you busy for a few days perfecting the final
prints from them. You learn to reject numerous
tempting possible photographs, cuz you've only
got enuf loaded film holders for a very few really
worthwhile images and you can't squander them
on less-than-the-best imaging opportunities. You
can learn to come home with no exposures at all
and be OK with it. Not every hunter bags a trophy
or even sees one on every outing.

Make sure you load the film emulsion toward the
slide. Make sure to pull and replace the slide and
that it's the correct side of the holder, remember
to flip the code from "new" to "exposed". Be sure
you close the shutter and iris before you pull the
darkslide. The only mistake that will reveal itself
to you on-site, and allow you to correct for it with
no losses of raw film nor loss of latent images, is
forgetting to cock the shutter. It's the only wrong
move for which there is a "lossless recovery".

If you never screw up any of that procedure then
you're not getting all excited about your images
and your pix will be boring. But when you screw
it up acoarst you get no pix. Enjoy !

Dirty little not-so-secret:

All that discipline sukks. For relief, carry an old
Leica or a Sony APSC or something, for all those
shots that are less than worthy of sheet film but
it still bugs you to just ignore them.
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Old 08-20-2016   #19
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Default Re: Total noob to large format

Hi Golem,

Many thanks for your guidance on this subject.
I'll post when I've made a purchase.

Regards,
M. A.


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