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Old 06-15-2007   #11
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Default Re: Histograms???

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Originally Posted by Nikonfreak View Post
So if they're not on the histogram, you believe the sensor recorded them?

Interesting.
We have a misunderstanding here. In other words, for a given tone, lets say a mid tone, if the number of pixels distributed for that tone are massive, then the histogram shows a spike for that tone, hitting the TOP of the histogram...Not the Left or Right extremes, but the TOP. Therein lies the misunderstanding.

For example, if you shot a wall which has a tone of 18% gray, then the corresponding histogram would show one line in the middle, from the bottom to the top. Now if your sensor provides 12.8 mega pixels, then that top value is 12.8 or there abouts.

The scale of the histogram is not absolute, but relative. Some use the term "logical".

In other words if all the pixels have the exact same tone, and that tone is within the DR of the corresponding sensor, nothing gets blown.

You seem to be confusing "blowing the top of the histo" with blowing the right/left extremes. They are not the same.

I hope this helps.
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Old 06-15-2007   #12
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Default Re: Histograms???

I should have specified I meant off the tails and not the peak of the mountain, but I thought I said that somewhere in there.
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Old 06-15-2007   #13
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Default Re: Histograms???

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I should have specified I meant off the tails and not the peak of the mountain, but I thought I said that somewhere in there.
In at least two posts here, you seemed to be talking about the top...I think even Max saw this in one or more of your posts above.

Glad for the clarification however.
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Old 06-15-2007   #14
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Default Re: Histograms???

Ya, he said mid-tones blown out. My mistake...but looking back I thought I said not to worry about the mids going "off the chart"... ah well... no big. Glad we cleared it up.

I still wonder if we should have gotten into dynamic range and sensor limitations.
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Old 06-15-2007   #15
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Default Re: Histograms???

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Originally Posted by Nikonfreak View Post
Ya, he said mid-tones blown out. My mistake...but looking back I thought I said not to worry about the mids going "off the chart"... ah well... no big. Glad we cleared it up.

I still wonder if we should have gotten into dynamic range and sensor limitations.
One day the makers will fix the narrow DR problem, and provide human eye type DR, and when this happens, histograms not be so relied upon.

In the 100+ years of film, they never solved that problem, so don't hold your breathe.
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Old 06-15-2007   #16
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Default Re: Histograms???

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Originally Posted by PavelOlavich View Post
In the 100+ years of film, they never solved that problem, so don't hold your breathe.
Incompatible analogies.

Film depended on chemical reactions between light and the material that captured it. There is only so much you can do with chemicals, their compounds, and the technology.

Digital depends on more controllable and adjustable elements. This is evident in the significant progress in DR over the last ten years in digital sensors. Compare what we had ten years ago, when I was still shooting film and never considered what digital might become, to today, when I just recently got rid of the last of my darkroom equipment.

Progress speeds up in all technologies. We're just seeing the beginning of the "good stuff".
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Old 06-15-2007   #17
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Incompatible analogies.

Film depended on chemical reactions between light and the material that captured it. There is only so much you can do with chemicals, their compounds, and the technology.

Digital depends on more controllable and adjustable elements. This is evident in the significant progress in DR over the last ten years in digital sensors. Compare what we had ten years ago, when I was still shooting film and never considered what digital might become, to today, when I just recently got rid of the last of my darkroom equipment.

Progress speeds up in all technologies. We're just seeing the beginning of the "good stuff".

Incompatible? They both show worse quality as ISO goes up, regardless of the need for chemicals. You'll get more noise or more grain, media dependent. But more to the point of DR, they both provide nearly the same DR, with negative film providing a tad more.

If progress speeds up in all technoligies, then what happened to film and DR and high ISO grain mitigation? Sure it got a little better over the decades but not by much.

As for DR and Canon's EOS line, since the D30 (no not 30D), and up to the 1D Mark III, DR has widened very little. Perhaps this is the last frontier, as we already have more then enough mega-pixels for most applications.

One poster the other day suggested that the 14 bit/channel tonal range is an increase DR over 8 or 12 bits, but it isn't. Funny how bit depth and DR are often confused as the same thing.
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Old 06-16-2007   #18
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Default Re: Histograms???

Sooooooo.....the bottom line is....don't worry about it?
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Old 06-16-2007   #19
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Default Re: Histograms???

hehe... yes... don't worry about it.

Only worry about the left or right sides of the histogram.
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Old 06-18-2007   #20
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Sooooooo.....the bottom line is....don't worry about it?
Yea, don't worry about it, as you say, and besides, blocked up shadows, or blown highlights are soo oooover rated!


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