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BlueMax 06-14-2018 10:19 PM

HSS strobes at night time events
 
I photograph barrel racing events at night just wondering if any one has tried HSS strobes for this kind of event? Right now I use non- HSS 600 watt strobes at 1/2 power and I am limited to 1/320 sec. At full power flash duration is to long causing motion blur.

Golem 06-16-2018 11:27 AM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
`



Based on info provided, I would cut the flash
duration a stop or two and adjust ISO and-or
aperture accordingly. Admittedly, thaz based
on a severe paucity [hint hint] of info and-or
sample images.

If you have some yet unmentioned reason to
consider HHS over speed pulse flash, then it
might also be worth comparing HSS to LEDs
as another alternative to to speed flash.

BlueMax 06-16-2018 01:19 PM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
My subject is a running horse 35 to 40 yards away in a poorly lit arena. I can't cut power any more because of light falloff. I run iso 2000 at 2.8 1/320 sec. and I still need more light. If I slow shutter photos blur more. I could go higher iso but then grain sneaks in. Just thinking HSS strobes might solve my problems. Just not sure just how much light power loss HSS would have.

Mike67 06-17-2018 02:40 AM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
An interesting article (ad, really) about flash duration vs. power level, and two types of power control here:


https://www.paulcbuff.com/Flash-Duration.html

BlueMax 06-17-2018 09:38 AM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike67 (Post 2392440)
An interesting article (ad, really) about flash duration vs. power level, and two types of power control here:


https://www.paulcbuff.com/Flash-Duration.html

Thank You!!

Golem 06-21-2018 06:26 PM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMax (Post 2392422)
My subject is a running horse 35 to 40 yards away in a
poorly lit arena. I can't cut power any more because of
light falloff. I run iso 2000 at 2.8 1/320 sec. and I still
need more light. If I slow shutter photos blur more. I
could go higher iso but then grain sneaks in.

Just thinking HSS strobes might solve my problems.
Just not sure just how much light power loss HSS
would have.

Are you already employing condensor lenses to narrow
the beam and concentrate more light on the subject ?
I don't think HSS is gonna get you anywhere ....

First off I should admit to having a bad attitude toward
HSS electronic flash. It began with the earliest versions
I can recall, for Olympus OM. Other companies had at
least one body offering 1/125 or 1/250 X-synch but all
OM bodies had cloth curtains limited to 1/60 ... so they
were pushing this new thing: HSS. I was not a believer.

Essentially, my attitude stems from my seeing HSS as a
dumb idea, lighting a xenon tube for an extended time
instead of condensing all the power into a short pulse.

You worry about power loss ? There's only just so many
watt-seconds, per dump, to be had from the capacitor.
At X-synch speeds, all of the light fall on the sensor, or
film ... none falls on the shutter blades.

The HHS mode offers more pictorial/artistic freedom,
but at a cost, as some of the light falls on the shutter
blades. How much is "some" ? At twice X-synch speed,
it's half the light, etc [you can extrapolate easily enuf].

IOW, it's wasteful but was invented before we had LED
panels, so it was the only reuseable continuous source
of illumination. Essentially, it replaced slow-burn flash
bulbs [aka type "FP" bulbs], which also wasted much
of their output illuminating the FP shutter curtains. At
1/1000 sec, about 90% was wasted ! Thaz why quick
pulse [nonHSS] "strobe" light is efficient: You get the
1/1000 sec exposure time, and ALL the light falls on
the film ... none on the shutter.

The effective efficiency of [nonHSS] fast pulse "strobe"
flash is that it delivers its entire output in less than a
1/500 of a second ... often less than 1/2000, or faster.
When applied to a scene/subject demanding extremely
fast exposure time, it's the most efficient device, becuz
all the other options waste light by allowing the shutter
mechanism to chop-off their output, same as a shutter
will do in daylight, to achieve very fast exposure times.

The glitch is that daylight is plentiful, free, and verrrry
bright. A sizzling xenon tube in HSS mode is a feeble
candle compared to daylight.

To repeat, HSS is about pictorial options, NOT output.
IOW power loss is a real concern, and worse as you go
to shorter and shorter exposure times.

Golem 06-21-2018 07:14 PM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
`



The system that PC Buff is lauding in the linked info
is not providing more power. It's essentially the same
as thyristor cut-off, essentially an "electronic shutter"
for the tube burn. It does extend battery life, giving
faster recycling in portables, and the PC Buff version
seems to cure the blue shift that results from short
exposures with actual thyristor units. But it doesn't
offer any extra output for the shortened exposures.
IOW, it's beneficial, colorwise, for studio lights.

BlueMax 06-21-2018 10:26 PM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
Thank you !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golem (Post 2392827)
Are you already employing condensor lenses to narrow
the beam and concentrate more light on the subject ?
I don't think HSS is gonna get you anywhere ....

First off I should admit to having a bad attitude toward
HSS electronic flash. It began with the earliest versions
I can recall, for Olympus OM. Other companies had at
least one body offering 1/125 or 1/250 X-synch but all
OM bodies had cloth curtains limited to 1/60 ... so they
were pushing this new thing: HSS. I was not a believer.

Essentially, my attitude stems from my seeing HSS as a
dumb idea, lighting a xenon tube for an extended time
instead of condensing all the power into a short pulse.

You worry about power loss ? There's only just so many
watt-seconds, per dump, to be had from the capacitor.
At X-synch speeds, all of the light fall on the sensor, or
film ... none falls on the shutter blades.

The HHS mode offers more pictorial/artistic freedom,
but at a cost, as some of the light falls on the shutter
blades. How much is "some" ? At twice X-synch speed,
it's half the light, etc [you can extrapolate easily enuf].

IOW, it's wasteful but was invented before we had LED
panels, so it was the only reuseable continuous source
of illumination. Essentially, it replaced slow-burn flash
bulbs [aka type "FP" bulbs], which also wasted much
of their output illuminating the FP shutter curtains. At
1/1000 sec, about 90% was wasted ! Thaz why quick
pulse [nonHSS] "strobe" light is efficient: You get the
1/1000 sec exposure time, and ALL the light falls on
the film ... none on the shutter.

The effective efficiency of [nonHSS] fast pulse "strobe"
flash is that it delivers its entire output in less than a
1/500 of a second ... often less than 1/2000, or faster.
When applied to a scene/subject demanding extremely
fast exposure time, it's the most efficient device, becuz
all the other options waste light by allowing the shutter
mechanism to chop-off their output, same as a shutter
will do in daylight, to achieve very fast exposure times.

The glitch is that daylight is plentiful, free, and verrrry
bright. A sizzling xenon tube in HSS mode is a feeble
candle compared to daylight.

To repeat, HSS is about pictorial options, NOT output.
IOW power loss is a real concern, and worse as you go
to shorter and shorter exposure times.


BlueMax 06-21-2018 10:33 PM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Golem (Post 2392827)
Are you already employing condensor lenses to narrow
the beam and concentrate more light on the subject ?
I don't think HSS is gonna get you anywhere ....

First off I should admit to having a bad attitude toward
HSS electronic flash. It began with the earliest versions
I can recall, for Olympus OM. Other companies had at
least one body offering 1/125 or 1/250 X-synch but all
OM bodies had cloth curtains limited to 1/60 ... so they
were pushing this new thing: HSS. I was not a believer.

Essentially, my attitude stems from my seeing HSS as a
dumb idea, lighting a xenon tube for an extended time
instead of condensing all the power into a short pulse.

You worry about power loss ? There's only just so many
watt-seconds, per dump, to be had from the capacitor.
At X-synch speeds, all of the light fall on the sensor, or
film ... none falls on the shutter blades.

The HHS mode offers more pictorial/artistic freedom,
but at a cost, as some of the light falls on the shutter
blades. How much is "some" ? At twice X-synch speed,
it's half the light, etc [you can extrapolate easily enuf].

IOW, it's wasteful but was invented before we had LED
panels, so it was the only reuseable continuous source
of illumination. Essentially, it replaced slow-burn flash
bulbs [aka type "FP" bulbs], which also wasted much
of their output illuminating the FP shutter curtains. At
1/1000 sec, about 90% was wasted ! Thaz why quick
pulse [nonHSS] "strobe" light is efficient: You get the
1/1000 sec exposure time, and ALL the light falls on
the film ... none on the shutter.

The effective efficiency of [nonHSS] fast pulse "strobe"
flash is that it delivers its entire output in less than a
1/500 of a second ... often less than 1/2000, or faster.
When applied to a scene/subject demanding extremely
fast exposure time, it's the most efficient device, becuz
all the other options waste light by allowing the shutter
mechanism to chop-off their output, same as a shutter
will do in daylight, to achieve very fast exposure times.

The glitch is that daylight is plentiful, free, and verrrry
bright. A sizzling xenon tube in HSS mode is a feeble
candle compared to daylight.

To repeat, HSS is about pictorial options, NOT output.
IOW power loss is a real concern, and worse as you go
to shorter and shorter exposure times.

I am using the standard 7" reflector power set at 1/4 power to get the shortest flash duration.

Mike67 06-22-2018 12:49 AM

Re: HSS strobes at night time events
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Golem (Post 2392828)
`



The system that PC Buff is lauding in the linked info
is not providing more power. It's essentially the same
as thyristor cut-off, essentially an "electronic shutter"
for the tube burn. It does extend battery life, giving
faster recycling in portables, and the PC Buff version
seems to cure the blue shift that results from short
exposures with actual thyristor units. But it doesn't
offer any extra output for the shortened exposures.
IOW, it's beneficial, colorwise, for studio lights.




The take that I got from the Buff article is that halving the power of conventional units actually increases flash duration, and, thereby motion blur, whereas halving the power of the Buff units dramatically decreases flash duration. Still, half power is half power.


I think one of these at half power with a short burst at 320 ws would still outperform any HSS., especially with a narrow focus reflector.


This IGBT CONTROL only applies to their Einstein units, not the others.


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