4x5 camera - Page 2
PhotoCamel: Your friendly photo community, with free discussion forums, digital photography reviews, photo sharing, galleries, downloads, blogs, photography contests, and prizes.
 

Go Back   PhotoCamel - Your Friendly Photography Forum > Cameras and Lenses > Film Camera

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-20-2012   #11
Photocamel Master
 
Brooks's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,670
CamelKarma: 2943091
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Seawolf,

You need to do a bit of testing for your personal ISO based on your film, and light meter..... your normal film development time and temperature based on your personal ISO and your film/developer combination..... and if you are making silver prints, based on the contrast grade of the paper you are using.

These are simple tests that you can perform in a single day that will enable you to control the tones in your images by matching the negative to the scene and then the negative to the paper or scan.

You should also invest in a 1 degree spot meter if you aren't already using one.
__________________
Adventure Before Dementia!

"To them, the bike is just garage clutter. To us, it's a loaded Beretta, a half-million in cash, and a forged passport under the floorboards." - Dan Walsh

" Enjoy every sandwich!"

Every single camera and all of the lenses that I've ever owned.
Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012   #12
Vicuna
 
Posts: 60
CamelKarma: 1215
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Haven't used that software, but a simple levels adjustment might help you. In the first, the "black" background comes out as a grey. I think dragging the black clipping slider a bit to the right at least on my sotware) and sending that back to black would probably help overall. Then if needed drag the white clipping to the right might help bring the whites back in line. Finally the gamma (mid) slider might go a bit to the left.

I think I'd prefer the first one actually if the whites and blacks were improved a bit.
InsuredDisaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012   #13
Photocamel Master
 
Posts: 5,750
CamelKarma: 400158
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Brooks I am testing my second set of 4x5 negatives are a lot better
from this first two . I am now rating T-MAX 400Iso at 200 ISO
and now use HC-110 was using ID-11.
I am only making 4x5 negatives and scanning into the LTRM 3.6
do not have a wet room .
Have spot meter collecting dust since I do not know how to test it to see if its some were within proper tolerances for metering.
I ave attached a another 4x5 processed in HC-110 and scanned that's all.
Brooks I thank you very much for your comment and help



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
Seawolf,

You need to do a bit of testing for your personal ISO based on your film, and light meter..... your normal film development time and temperature based on your personal ISO and your film/developer combination..... and if you are making silver prints, based on the contrast grade of the paper you are using.

These are simple tests that you can perform in a single day that will enable you to control the tones in your images by matching the negative to the scene and then the negative to the paper or scan.

You should also invest in a 1 degree spot meter if you aren't already using one.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hexar lens 15cm (2).jpg (41.1 KB, 36 views)
seawolf66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012   #14
Photocamel Master
 
Brooks's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,670
CamelKarma: 2943091
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

The idea with BW film is that you want to use the least exposure to record the shadow detail that you desire. In other words, you meter for the shadow detail and while doing so you want the least amount of exposure that gives the best shadow detail. The highlights and and to some degree the mid-tones are controlled by the film development.

The first step in determining proper exposure is finding the correct ISO for your film, meter, lens and developer combination. You've chosen to over expose your film by one stop compared to the rated sensitivity of the film. That might be correct or it might be too much or too little exposure for your conditions.

To find your correct ISO do the following:

Setup your camera so it is focused on infinity.You don't want bellows factor skewing your results. Aim it towards a single toned surface in stable light. You want to fill the frame with only that tone. You could use the shaded side of your house or an interior wall or large piece of white board.

Using your spot meter from the camera position with the films normal rated ISO, read the wall and stop down 4 stops to place that exposure in Zone 1 which is just barely above pure black.

Make a series of 9 exposures on separate sheets of film at 1/2 stop intervals (use your f/stop not shutter speeds) for 2 stops above and 2 stops below your initial reading. When you make these exposures, pull the dark slide only half way out of the film holder so half of the sheet of film remains unexposed.

Process all the film normally. When dry, lay the pieces of film out on a light table in order from darkest (thinnest) to lightest (heaviest) . Pick the one where you can just barely see the difference from the clear film and exposed area on the sheet of film. Determine the ISO of that sheet of film by counting 1/2 stops away from your middle normal ISO exposed film. That's your correct ISO.

After you have done that we can then talk about determining your normal, compacting and expanding developing times.
__________________
Adventure Before Dementia!

"To them, the bike is just garage clutter. To us, it's a loaded Beretta, a half-million in cash, and a forged passport under the floorboards." - Dan Walsh

" Enjoy every sandwich!"

Every single camera and all of the lenses that I've ever owned.
Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012   #15
Photocamel Master
 
Posts: 5,750
CamelKarma: 400158
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Brooks : I have printed that out to read and follow it along : Thanks a lot :
seawolf66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012   #16
Photocamel Master
 
Brooks's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,670
CamelKarma: 2943091
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolf66 View Post
Brooks : I have printed that out to read and follow it along : Thanks a lot :
You're on a great journey of discovery!
__________________
Adventure Before Dementia!

"To them, the bike is just garage clutter. To us, it's a loaded Beretta, a half-million in cash, and a forged passport under the floorboards." - Dan Walsh

" Enjoy every sandwich!"

Every single camera and all of the lenses that I've ever owned.
Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012   #17
Dromedary
 
tomrit's Avatar
 
Location: Boone NC USA
Posts: 1,527
CamelKarma: 2684
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Since I have gone to stand developing to completion*, I have found that the film manufactures' ISO setting is pretty much correct.

*Developing the film without agitation for an hour in Rodinal 100:1. That uses up all the developer in the emulsion. Proof that that is seen by developing longer. The negative gets no denser with the longer development (I have let it set for up to 3 hours). It is a very convenient way to process the film, once the film is in the developer, I set the timer and go do something else. The total time in the darkroom is 15-20 minutes. Load the film, pour in the developer, invert the developing tank a couple of times. Go away for an hour or more. No need for a stop bath, the development is already stopped, fix for a minute. I do a three bath rinse (2.5, 5, & 10 minutes), but if you do a running water rinse you could do something else while that is going on. Hang the film up to dry. Clean up the darkroom (I usually do that while that final 10 minute soak is going on).

In the old days, before old age and laziness overtook me, that is not how I did it. I used to do all that tedious very careful time and temperature stuff, standing around and agitating ever minute on the minute for seven and a half minutes exactly. Now I do the lazy man's way and get more consistent negatives too.

Processing by time and temperature is better done by machinery as it is about as boring as anything can be. Processing prints visually is much more interesting. They are in the developer for only a couple of minutes, and there are things you can do to further manipulate the image while that is going on.
__________________
Tom
www.tomrit.com
tomrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012   #18
Photocamel Master
 
Brooks's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,670
CamelKarma: 2943091
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Agitation, and careful control of time and temperature is the key to effective use of the Zone System and the path to superior BW negatives and prints. There are very few outdoor scenes with a "normal" luminance range. Most scenes require some expansion or compaction of the tones on the negative to fit the negative to the luminance range of the scene.
__________________
Adventure Before Dementia!

"To them, the bike is just garage clutter. To us, it's a loaded Beretta, a half-million in cash, and a forged passport under the floorboards." - Dan Walsh

" Enjoy every sandwich!"

Every single camera and all of the lenses that I've ever owned.
Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012   #19
Dromedary
 
tomrit's Avatar
 
Location: Boone NC USA
Posts: 1,527
CamelKarma: 2684
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
Agitation, and careful control of time and temperature is the key to effective use of the Zone System and the path to superior BW negatives and prints. There are very few outdoor scenes with a "normal" luminance range. Most scenes require some expansion or compaction of the tones on the negative to fit the negative to the luminance range of the scene.
If you need to get a near perfect print every time on #2 Azo contact paper, the zone system is the way to go. Otherwise it is kind of silly. 99 & 44/100 percent hype, in my not so humble opinion.

Let me expand on that a bit. By the time you are a good enough photographer to benefit from something like the zone system, you already know a half dozen techniques to do approximately the same thing on the fly. For instance, when doing photojournalistic type work in 35mm you learn when to shift your exposure up or down by a stop to adjust contrast, variable contrast paper eliminates the need for the change in development. With that technique all you need is an accurate midtone exposure point so an incident light meter works really well. Then it is just a case of having developed, through experience, the ability to recognize low, normal, & high contrast subject ranges.

Of course if you really want to take 18 exposure readings with your spot meter, then sit down with a pencil and notebook to work it all out, carry three cameras with with a roll of film for N, N-1, & N+1 development in each, be my guest.
__________________
Tom
www.tomrit.com
tomrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012   #20
Photocamel Master
 
Brooks's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,670
CamelKarma: 2943091
Editing OK?: Ask First
Constructive Critique?: Yes
Default Re: 4x5 camera

Tom, the Zone system is easy. It only takes 2 meter readings, one to get the exposure and shoot the photo and the second to determine the luminance range of the scene and the development time. It's easier and faster to pick a shadow area where you want detail and a highlight area where you want detail than it is to guess which tone is a mid-tone and hope that highlight and shadow fall in line. Takes a couple of minutes at most. When I'm shooting BW film and using the Zone System I don't carry several camera bodies, I carry film holders or film backs though there's nothing wrong with carrying more than one camera body if all you have are 35mm film cameras.

Exposing for the shadows and developing for the highlights is a CREATIVE decision as well as the best way to make the best negative that will print beautifully in the darkroom.

Journalistic photography has nothing to do with this technique. Journalistic photography is more about just getting the shot and the emotion and timing of the subject. For that you need f/8 and be there with some 400 ISO film.

Even so, over and under exposing bw film does not shift the contrast up or down all it does is make a negative that has less shadow or less highlight detail. You can jerk the contrast around with a poorly exposed and developed negative when you make the print but that's not the same thing and you can tell in the final print.


__________________
Members don't see ads in threads. Register for your free account today and become a member of PhotoCamel to open up the site's many benefits and features.
__________________
Adventure Before Dementia!

"To them, the bike is just garage clutter. To us, it's a loaded Beretta, a half-million in cash, and a forged passport under the floorboards." - Dan Walsh

" Enjoy every sandwich!"

Every single camera and all of the lenses that I've ever owned.
Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

« PhotoCamel - Your Friendly Photography Forum > Cameras and Lenses > Film Camera »


Share this topic:

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
first timer with 4x5 belch_queen Medium and Large Format 22 02-04-2016 05:11 PM
4x5 scanner? Vedauwoo Computers and Software 1 06-21-2009 10:43 AM
The chicken: ultrawide 4x5 cigar box camera picture walter23 Black & White 7 02-07-2009 01:55 PM