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-   -   Photoshop Creative Cloud?? (https://photocamel.com/forum/computers-software/186084-photoshop-creative-cloud.html)

thcofer 01-16-2014 06:24 PM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermonday (Post 1954923)
Tom, just in case you have not seen this, Adobe compromised and created a "Photographers CC bundle" which consists of PS and LR fro $9.99/month for both and I believe your current subsciption is convertible.
http://photocamel.com/forum/computer...aves-sort.html
Cheers, Murray

Sorry Murray, I didn't see this post before. I did get the LR a while back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BambersImages (Post 2017206)
I believe that the intention is that they do an upgrade of the features once a quarter instead of when they released a new version of CS.

You may be right Clare. All I know is I'm liking it. :-):afro:

Dr_No 01-16-2014 07:23 PM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thcofer (Post 2017174)
I understand both sides of the argument.

One of the things that has been nice about having CC is that there have been several updates since I first got it. Most of these weren't just bug fixes like you'd be able to get for the previous versions, but rather new and/or improved features. So instead of waiting for and paying for the next version of CS, I get new and additional features as they develop them.

True - it would be nice to have things like the new Radial Filter in Camera RAW. Adobe will probably incorporate the upgraded Camera RAW into the CC version as a complete filter instead of the separate function it is now. Nice as that is - or sounds - it's not enough for me to recant my position about owning software instead of being a 'renter'.

I actually liked the old method of putting out a new release every 18 months ... it was, in a way, reminiscent of the days when kids looked forward to seeing what next year's automobiles would look like every September. The new 'release on recognizance' [sic] version is something I'd gladly trade off for having it incorporated in a full version released less often - and which I owned rather than rented.

mistermonday 01-16-2014 08:56 PM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdt360 (Post 2017199)
What important functions have they gotten rid of?

There has been a ton of things that disappeared, quietly or with some fanfare. Here are a few that I remember off the top of my head. The may be things you never used and don't care about but they were important to many other users.

- Picture Package Plugin
- Extract Plugin
- Pattern Maker Plugin
- PhotomergeUI plugin
- Texture & Layout Presets no longer installed. Available for some time from Adobe
- Kodak Photo CD format no longer readable. (I know Kodak is out of business but many of us have dozens of CD's full of developed film scanned to CD by them and others all in Kodak proprietary file format and color space.
- TAWIN plugin removed (MAC users)
- Scripting support dropped for Visual Basic
- Scripting support dropped for Apple Script
- Web Contact Sheet gone
- Contact Sheet command gone
- Layer Comp to WPG gone
- Texture Presets for Texturizer gone
- Web Photo Gallery Gone
- File format support removed for Alias, Electric Image, SRIRGB, & SoftImage

Then there were some things that were significant inconveniences that generated a lot of controversy.
- After almost 20 years where users were completely patterned to use Ctrl ~, Ctrl1, Ctrl2, Ctrl3, as the daily shortcuts to select Luminosity, and channels R, G, B respectively, Adobe changed them to Ctrl 2, 3, 4, 5 respectively. Users who employed those shortcuts 500 times a day at least had older versions of the PS that they could use for gradual transition
- After PS7, Adobe secretly colluded with the US Canada and several other gov'ts and allowed those gov't to include code inside of PS CS1 that prevented people from scanning paper money. There was a huge uproar from the huge number of people and organizations that had legal and legitimate reasons and need to scan the bills.
- For 20 years Adobe produced and updated a User Guide (PDF and paper) for PS version x. It grew to about 900 pages and was a very useful learning and reference manual. With the intro of CS6, they stopped in favor of update guides and online help for new features which you could use with your old CS5 help guide. I think their new philosophy is no more single user manual - do a search of online help. So the info is fragmented into 2000 pcs.
- There was a .dll in PS up to version 7 or cs1 or cs2 which allowed PS to display a thumbnail of the contents of each file. When it was removed you only got to see the PS generic icon so there was no way to see what image was in the file without opening the file or purchasing a 3rd party viewer.

Getting back to my original point, things have been removed and the trend has accelerated in the last few versions of PS. Adobe will always look for ways to reduce the program's bloat, and will always try to trim it down because that mean less code to support and validate. I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing. Things will continue to be dropped and changed. Under the old licence model you could always revert back to previous versions of PS to save you butt as I have. Under the CC model, Adobe updates you automatically when they want. They remove what they want, they won't necessarily inform you, and you are stuck without a regression option. And all you can do if you do not like it, is terminate you CC subscription. Then try to open some of your files saved as psd with Smart Objects.

Cheers, Murray

Dr_No 01-16-2014 09:35 PM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Just a quick update ... Adobe has brought back TWAIN (Technology Without An Important Name) ... here's the link:

http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/...p-cs4-cs5.html

I've tried it, and it works, but I prefer using my Epson scanner as a standalone because the view y' get with this 'TWAIN' just doesn't do it for me The view is miniscule and y' can't see the colors to make basic pre-scan color corrections - my scans using TWAIN have all come in too dark. When scanning color negative film, the image is reversed, and that can be corrected in my Epson software, but not in the Adobe TWAIN software. This is, btw, being used with PSCS6 Extended for Mac. Other than that, there are also other replacement plug-ins at the Adobe site, but none that I'd install now. Oh - I still have PSCS4 and PSCS5 on the HD. Be sure to look for the 'Optional Plug-ins' at the URL.

Tat2Duck 01-16-2014 09:56 PM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
I'm just going to make a rather obvious analogy...

The same argument has been used by customers for years about the ownership (and licensing) of photographs.
"After all, it's my picture. Why shouldn't I own it?"
"Licensing fee? You mean I have to keep paying to use this?"

...

Just an observation. :shifty:

Mike_PEAT 01-17-2014 04:08 AM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Filter > Render > Lighting Effects

OK, they say if you run PS in 32 bit mode you can get it back, but that's working backwards!

mistermonday 01-17-2014 08:52 AM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_PEAT (Post 2017435)
Filter > Render > Lighting Effects

OK, they say if you run PS in 32 bit mode you can get it back, but that's working backwards!

Yes, that was a big one that didn't make the cut when PS went from CS4 to CS5. The backlash was pretty strong and Adobe reworked it and included it in CS6. But that's when Adobe still needed to provide users reasons to purchase the next upgrade. Under the CC model the pressure on Adobe is a lot less.
Cheers, Murray

thcofer 01-17-2014 09:42 AM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_No (Post 2017266)
True - it would be nice to have things like the new Radial Filter in Camera RAW. Adobe will probably incorporate the upgraded Camera RAW into the CC version as a complete filter instead of the separate function it is now. Nice as that is - or sounds - it's not enough for me to recant my position about owning software instead of being a 'renter'.

I actually liked the old method of putting out a new release every 18 months ... it was, in a way, reminiscent of the days when kids looked forward to seeing what next year's automobiles would look like every September. The new 'release on recognizance' [sic] version is something I'd gladly trade off for having it incorporated in a full version released less often - and which I owned rather than rented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermonday (Post 2017324)
There has been a ton of things that disappeared, quietly or with some fanfare. Here are a few that I remember off the top of my head. The may be things you never used and don't care about but they were important to many other users.

- Picture Package Plugin
- Extract Plugin
- Pattern Maker Plugin
- PhotomergeUI plugin
- Texture & Layout Presets no longer installed. Available for some time from Adobe
- Kodak Photo CD format no longer readable. (I know Kodak is out of business but many of us have dozens of CD's full of developed film scanned to CD by them and others all in Kodak proprietary file format and color space.
- TAWIN plugin removed (MAC users)
- Scripting support dropped for Visual Basic
- Scripting support dropped for Apple Script
- Web Contact Sheet gone
- Contact Sheet command gone
- Layer Comp to WPG gone
- Texture Presets for Texturizer gone
- Web Photo Gallery Gone
- File format support removed for Alias, Electric Image, SRIRGB, & SoftImage

Then there were some things that were significant inconveniences that generated a lot of controversy.
- After almost 20 years where users were completely patterned to use Ctrl ~, Ctrl1, Ctrl2, Ctrl3, as the daily shortcuts to select Luminosity, and channels R, G, B respectively, Adobe changed them to Ctrl 2, 3, 4, 5 respectively. Users who employed those shortcuts 500 times a day at least had older versions of the PS that they could use for gradual transition
- After PS7, Adobe secretly colluded with the US Canada and several other gov'ts and allowed those gov't to include code inside of PS CS1 that prevented people from scanning paper money. There was a huge uproar from the huge number of people and organizations that had legal and legitimate reasons and need to scan the bills.
- For 20 years Adobe produced and updated a User Guide (PDF and paper) for PS version x. It grew to about 900 pages and was a very useful learning and reference manual. With the intro of CS6, they stopped in favor of update guides and online help for new features which you could use with your old CS5 help guide. I think their new philosophy is no more single user manual - do a search of online help. So the info is fragmented into 2000 pcs.
- There was a .dll in PS up to version 7 or cs1 or cs2 which allowed PS to display a thumbnail of the contents of each file. When it was removed you only got to see the PS generic icon so there was no way to see what image was in the file without opening the file or purchasing a 3rd party viewer.

Getting back to my original point, things have been removed and the trend has accelerated in the last few versions of PS. Adobe will always look for ways to reduce the program's bloat, and will always try to trim it down because that mean less code to support and validate. I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing. Things will continue to be dropped and changed. Under the old licence model you could always revert back to previous versions of PS to save you butt as I have. Under the CC model, Adobe updates you automatically when they want. They remove what they want, they won't necessarily inform you, and you are stuck without a regression option. And all you can do if you do not like it, is terminate you CC subscription. Then try to open some of your files saved as psd with Smart Objects.

Cheers, Murray

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_No (Post 2017347)
Just a quick update ... Adobe has brought back TWAIN (Technology Without An Important Name) ... here's the link:

TWAIN plug-in | Photoshop CS4, CS5, CS6

I've tried it, and it works, but I prefer using my Epson scanner as a standalone because the view y' get with this 'TWAIN' just doesn't do it for me The view is miniscule and y' can't see the colors to make basic pre-scan color corrections - my scans using TWAIN have all come in too dark. When scanning color negative film, the image is reversed, and that can be corrected in my Epson software, but not in the Adobe TWAIN software. This is, btw, being used with PSCS6 Extended for Mac. Other than that, there are also other replacement plug-ins at the Adobe site, but none that I'd install now. Oh - I still have PSCS4 and PSCS5 on the HD. Be sure to look for the 'Optional Plug-ins' at the URL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tat2Duck (Post 2017356)
I'm just going to make a rather obvious analogy...

The same argument has been used by customers for years about the ownership (and licensing) of photographs.
"After all, it's my picture. Why shouldn't I own it?"
"Licensing fee? You mean I have to keep paying to use this?"

...

Just an observation. :shifty:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_PEAT (Post 2017435)
Filter > Render > Lighting Effects

OK, they say if you run PS in 32 bit mode you can get it back, but that's working backwards!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermonday (Post 2017492)
Yes, that was a big one that didn't make the cut when PS went from CS4 to CS5. The backlash was pretty strong and Adobe reworked it and included it in CS6. But that's when Adobe still needed to provide users reasons to purchase the next upgrade. Under the CC model the pressure on Adobe is a lot less.
Cheers, Murray

--
Wow. I didn't realize just how much stuff they have dropped over the years until you started talking about it and then I started thinking about it a bit more.

A side note:
I love this and would like to say thank you! I wish all or conversations on the camel could be like this. Folks expressing opposing opinions and explaining why and doing so without the hateful backbiting name calling and such! :-):-):afro:

I personally can see advantages to both sides of the subject. In a perfect world, Adobe would do both, continue with the CC line and offer a new CS or independent disc version every 18 months or so. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.

jdt360 01-17-2014 10:28 AM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermonday (Post 2017324)
There has been a ton of things that disappeared, quietly or with some fanfare. Here are a few that I remember off the top of my head. The may be things you never used and don't care about but they were important to many other users.

- Picture Package Plugin
- Extract Plugin
- Pattern Maker Plugin
- PhotomergeUI plugin
- Texture & Layout Presets no longer installed. Available for some time from Adobe
- Kodak Photo CD format no longer readable. (I know Kodak is out of business but many of us have dozens of CD's full of developed film scanned to CD by them and others all in Kodak proprietary file format and color space.
- TAWIN plugin removed (MAC users)
- Scripting support dropped for Visual Basic
- Scripting support dropped for Apple Script
- Web Contact Sheet gone
- Contact Sheet command gone
- Layer Comp to WPG gone
- Texture Presets for Texturizer gone
- Web Photo Gallery Gone
- File format support removed for Alias, Electric Image, SRIRGB, & SoftImage

Then there were some things that were significant inconveniences that generated a lot of controversy.
- After almost 20 years where users were completely patterned to use Ctrl ~, Ctrl1, Ctrl2, Ctrl3, as the daily shortcuts to select Luminosity, and channels R, G, B respectively, Adobe changed them to Ctrl 2, 3, 4, 5 respectively. Users who employed those shortcuts 500 times a day at least had older versions of the PS that they could use for gradual transition
- After PS7, Adobe secretly colluded with the US Canada and several other gov'ts and allowed those gov't to include code inside of PS CS1 that prevented people from scanning paper money. There was a huge uproar from the huge number of people and organizations that had legal and legitimate reasons and need to scan the bills.
- For 20 years Adobe produced and updated a User Guide (PDF and paper) for PS version x. It grew to about 900 pages and was a very useful learning and reference manual. With the intro of CS6, they stopped in favor of update guides and online help for new features which you could use with your old CS5 help guide. I think their new philosophy is no more single user manual - do a search of online help. So the info is fragmented into 2000 pcs.
- There was a .dll in PS up to version 7 or cs1 or cs2 which allowed PS to display a thumbnail of the contents of each file. When it was removed you only got to see the PS generic icon so there was no way to see what image was in the file without opening the file or purchasing a 3rd party viewer.

Getting back to my original point, things have been removed and the trend has accelerated in the last few versions of PS. Adobe will always look for ways to reduce the program's bloat, and will always try to trim it down because that mean less code to support and validate. I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing. Things will continue to be dropped and changed. Under the old licence model you could always revert back to previous versions of PS to save you butt as I have. Under the CC model, Adobe updates you automatically when they want. They remove what they want, they won't necessarily inform you, and you are stuck without a regression option. And all you can do if you do not like it, is terminate you CC subscription. Then try to open some of your files saved as psd with Smart Objects.

Cheers, Murray

Thanks for the info… interesting stuff!

I guess i've been lucky. I've been using since version 7 and daily for work since the original CS. While every version had something that required an adjustment and/or a new learning curve, I felt every upgrade was well worth it and I never lost a feature I had to have.

Here is info from adobe:
Q: As a Creative Cloud member, am I required to install an upgrade to a desktop application when it becomes available?
A: No. You are not required to install any new version of the desktop applications available in Creative Cloud. You can continue using your current version of the product as long as you have an active membership. You have flexibility on when you install a new release to take advantage of new product features, if you choose to do so.


I would fully research each upgrade and wait a bit before installing if this is really a concern. However, Adobe's new model isn't automatically taking away features as you suggest.

mistermonday 01-17-2014 11:04 AM

Re: Photoshop Creative Cloud??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdt360 (Post 2017550)
Thanks for the info… interesting stuff!

I guess i've been lucky. I've been using since version 7 and daily for work since the original CS. While every version had something that required an adjustment and/or a new learning curve, I felt every upgrade was well worth it and I never lost a feature I had to have.

Here is info from adobe:
Q: As a Creative Cloud member, am I required to install an upgrade to a desktop application when it becomes available?
A: No. You are not required to install any new version of the desktop applications available in Creative Cloud. You can continue using your current version of the product as long as you have an active membership. You have flexibility on when you install a new release to take advantage of new product features, if you choose to do so.


I would fully research each upgrade and wait a bit before installing if this is really a concern. However, Adobe's new model isn't automatically taking away features as you suggest.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I am aware that you can delay installation of the new releases as long as you like. If you decide not to update, then at some point you will be paying forever a lot of money to keep your old version with no benefit of new features or possibly bug fixes which may only be possible with a major rewrite of some core code. The trend of feature discontinuance has been established. Bloatware can not continue totally unchecked in the software world. I am not saying that Adobe will automatically remove some components with every release but it will continue with time. Subscribers need to be aware of the downside potential. Users also need to be prepared with an contingency plan in the event that they have to some day terminate their subscription. That means either storing all one's work in non proprietary formats like unlayered TIFFs and jpgs or some older perpetual licensed version of PS that can open psd and other Adobe proprietary file components.
I had a long conversation with an Adobe PS developer who confirmed that after a subscription terminates and any grace period has expired, the program ceases to function. There is no Filter>Parachute.
Cheers, Murray


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