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Old 08-30-2007   #21
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Default Re: ot: fuller frame Nikon

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Originally Posted by PavelOlavich View Post
Oly's give great anti-dust performance. Nikon provides great, if not the best ergonomics. NEITHER one does anything for image quality. Zero. If we're to brag about cameras, lets brag about their image quality, yea?
Yeah, OK.

How good is IQ if you got your sensor infected with dust just because you *had to* change lenses?

How good is IQ if you can not take the shot because your fingers got cramped up and became too stiff to even turn the zoomring, let alone fiddle with too many too tiny buttons because the body-ergonomics suck big time? Try a 400D/XTi without grip but with 70-200F2.8 IS for a 6 hour shoot outside in windy/stormy (but dry... ) weather...

Dust and Ergonomics have *everything* to do with *being able to deliver*ANY*IQ*at ALL*...

...but that is just *my* opinion, *my* €0.02 worth...

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Old 08-30-2007   #22
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Default Re: ot: fuller frame Nikon

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Originally Posted by Max@Home View Post
Yeah, OK.

How good is IQ if you got your sensor infected with dust just because you *had to* change lenses?

How good is IQ if you can not take the shot because your fingers got cramped up and became too stiff to even turn the zoomring, let alone fiddle with too many too tiny buttons because the body-ergonomics suck big time? Try a 400D/XTi without grip but with 70-200F2.8 IS for a 6 hour shoot outside in windy/stormy (but dry... ) weather...

Dust and Ergonomics have *everything* to do with *being able to deliver*ANY*IQ*at ALL*...

...but that is just *my* opinion, *my* €0.02 worth...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home
Max, if the sensor is dirty, just clean it, yea? I've never blown a shoot because my 5D sensor was dirty...I just take a few minutes to clean it and I'm good to go. Never lost a shot to this either.

And I think you blow out of proportion the evils of mediocre ergonomics, to be sure.

Those features have an indirect effect on image quality, agreed, not not directly.
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Old 08-30-2007   #23
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Default Re: ot: fuller frame Nikon

To be fair, Max, you’re showing your senility or Crotographer syndrome now.

Too much moderating, or too much optimism, you’re not saying that you really took a 400D and that lens out for a ‘pro’ shoot lasting 6 hours ~ by choice!!!

And even with the grip on that machine, it don’t work … even though I’ve use the 350D + grip with 300mm F2.8 and the 1.4x extension in a theatre ~ it was draped over the seat in front, I considered myself using a telescope.

It reminds me of the story of the bus driver who, for 40 years took out his single decker bus and had an exemplary safety record, only to have one of the worst traffic accidents on record as twenty passengers were decapitated as he drove his double decker bus under the low bridge, forgetting why he had driven a single decker all these years, and took the double decker only because his single decker bus was broken down.



i.e. you know you should not do these things ....



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Originally Posted by Max@Home View Post
Yeah, OK. Try a 400D/XTi without grip but with 70-200F2.8 IS for a 6 hour shoot outside in windy/stormy (but dry... ) weather...
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Old 08-30-2007   #24
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Default Re: ot: fuller frame Nikon

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To be fair, Max, you’re showing your senility or Crotographer syndrome now.
Thanks.

Quote:
Too much moderating, or too much optimism, you’re not saying that you really took a 400D and that lens out for a ‘pro’ shoot lasting 6 hours ~ by choice!!!
...not by choice but out of necessity: I only have a 20D +400D, 400D served as 2nd/backup camera, 20D+17-55, 400D+70-200, but everything went *not* as planned, and I was forced to do a lot more with 70-200 than I imagined. And as this was a PJ shoot, no time to switch the lenses...

Quote:
And even with the grip on that machine, it don’t work … even though I’ve use the 350D + grip with 300mm F2.8 and the 1.4x extension in a theatre ~ it was draped over the seat in front, I considered myself using a telescope.
I used 20D+grip+17-55 + 350D+grip+70-200F2.8IS on many occasions, as long as it's '2nd camera' for some closeups I am OK with it, as I have very small hands. But the 350D/400D grip is currently in repair (main controller wheel was rolling freely without altering anything, my first actual Canon repair in 35 years...)...

Quote:
It reminds me of the story of the bus driver who, for 40 years took out his single decker bus and had an exemplary safety record, only to have one of the worst traffic accidents on record as twenty passengers were decapitated as he drove his double decker bus under the low bridge, forgetting why he had driven a single decker all these years, and took the double decker only because his single decker bus was broken own.
LOL

Quote:
i.e. you know you should not do these things...
yes, I know, but sometimes circumstances force you to do things you know you shouldn't...

...and €0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home
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Old 08-30-2007   #25
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Default Re: ot: fuller frame Nikon

Was called in to do a fairly technical execution a few months back, was appalled at the F22 dust problem.

Was so embarrassed that I did not invoice and refused other work from this group.

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Originally Posted by Max@Home View Post
Dust and Ergonomics have *everything* to do with *being able to deliver*ANY*IQ*at ALL*...
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Old 08-31-2007   #26
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Default Re: ot: fuller frame Nikon

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Originally Posted by PavelOlavich View Post
You hammered on the 5D's short comings; all of which have nothing to do with image quality. Then you praise the Oly for features that have nothing to do with image quality.

I would very much love it if we praise/bash cameras based soley on their prime directive: Image Quality And if you do that, then the 5D is one bad A$$ camera,the best of any brand and model, save for the just recently released Nikon's and the 1DS Mark III.

And lets be object here, before the D300 & D3, Nikon had no remarkable or outstanding DSLR. Not one. But last week changed that, didn't it!
I wouldn't say I was hammering the shortcomings (maybe this shows a difference in how we both react to criticism of these items of desire ). IQ is undoubtedly a prime objective, I agree. It also involves more than just having a FF sensor or large numbers of pixels. I can show some horrible shots taken with the 5D in 'optimal' conditions. It doesn't just magically produce the best IQ across the range. Stick a WA (and not so WA) lens on and shoot wide open and it will often show a limitation in IQ - regardless of whether this is just a thing 'we've always had with FF'.

Anyway, I read in another thread that you're now looking at switching to Nikon for the D3? I will wish you best of luck with this. It must be a never-ending quest to get the best IQ in this fast-changing digital age .


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