"Seeing Pictures", a proposal.
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Old 06-13-2016   #1
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Default "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

Proposing a subforum about "Seeing Pictures".

Participants submit pictures for discussion NOT critique.
Even occasional pictures found, rather than authored, by
the member who is submitting it [with acknowledgement
acoarst !]. But mainly it should be members pictures.

No tech data is provided, none is speculated nor should
anyone suggest tech changes [refocus, exposure, longer
lens, etc]. All discussion is about content ... why are you
showing us this ? What do we think is happening ? Can it
inspire us to a new project ? Why we hate kitty pictures,
how to make the message more clear, or more hidden,
but not by technical advice.

Exercising our SEEING muscles is what I suggest, and to
do it by sharing. No praising, no panning, no critique. A
subforum like this might require a vigilant moderator so
it doesn't go astray and become just another critique or
salon forum. Think of it as an exercise space, a gym for
those "seeing muscles". Some gyms have a competitive
feel. Any competitive urges here should be to submit a
photo that generates the most discussion, not the most
praise or envy. No one should hesitate for fear of being
a novice or technically less skilled. No problem with a
caption like, "Here's a series I'm not happy with, but I
can't get away from this scene. I tried it several ways,
over several weeks, so I need to hear some reactions".

And, oh yeah, NO ONE is allowed to mention the "ROT"
[Rule Of Thirds] It's about what you see, NOT what
someone else told you to look for ....

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Old 06-13-2016   #2
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

Here's an example. I would have liked to get this
idea across without feeling like I did a cliche. I
can see it as purely an image, and it's OK, good
but not outstanding. But the moment I let myself
think beyond the purely visual, my mind screams
"CLICHE" .... or maybe "Hallmark Greeting Card".

Footprints E1.jpg
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Old 06-13-2016   #3
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

So here's another. Some aspects are OK. It's not one
of my faves but it's not as if I'm gonna delete it. The
reason I brought it here is the "music thing". There's
a pull on me to shoot performances, but sometimes
it seems just hopeless cuz it's a visual record of what
is mainly an audible event.

Brooklyn Horns1818 E2.jpg

`
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Old 06-13-2016   #4
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

I'm not really sure I have a good understanding of your proposal.

When I view your example along with the "I would have liked to get this idea across without feeling like I did a cliche." I'm not sure what your idea is. Should I be?

Looking at the content of the photo, I "see" three sets of tracks, one human track coming, one leaving and one four legged track that I would assume to be an animal but seems very uniform.
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Old 06-13-2016   #5
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by templeinmn View Post
I'm not really sure I have a good understanding of your proposal.

When I view your example along with the "I would have liked to
get this idea across without feeling like I did a cliche." I'm not
sure what your idea is. Should I be?

Looking at the content of the photo, I "see" three sets of tracks,
one human track coming, one leaving and one four legged track
that I would assume to be an animal but seems very uniform.
Not sure what the idea is ? That's where discussion can start. Let's
pretend my proposed subforum is up and running here. That would
mean it's not just you and me alone. Better to hear from whoever
else is participating than for me to clarify the idea by words. We
wanna expand the discussion, not summarily end it.

Maybe to some, there's no clear idea. To others some idea seems
pretty clear, but a different idea to each. Maybe someone else is
just accepting it as a graphic, visual idea, not a narrative found in
the fact that tracks in the snow means foot traffic happened. That
person wonders if a more vertical vantage point would render a
more graphical effect, and knows where he can accomplish such
a shot, just to see what happens. And he should post the result.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

The proposal is for an open forum about seeing images, in as many
ways as different people see them and "cross pollenating" our ways
of seeing thru participation. That's the "left hand" of the proposal.
The "right hand" is space, for some image oriented time free from
tech chatter, tech questions or advice, or geekish complaints etc,
where images, visuals, and content are the talk of the day.

If we discuss portraits, it's about expression, timing, light, or any
aspect that's NOT wireless trigger units, "best portrait lens", etc. If
it's birds, it's about the image, NOT about rare species or life lists.
And certainly not about giant long lenses. Some bird pix, however
perfectly executed, are just catalog shots for a life list. Others are
engaging images and we can engage in that ... even as non-birders.
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Old 06-13-2016   #6
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

I am also having trouble understanding what Golem is getting at here, especially the rules for interaction: no technical suggestions allowed; no overall expressions either of approval or disapproval; no reference to established rules of good (or bad) composition (Dolem's "Rule of Thirds" example). I don't see how commenters can say anything that might be helpful to the original photographer (or not, if imported images are allowed) without a big risk of being misunderstood or violating the proposed forum's rules.

By the way, I see nothing cliché about Golem's snow scene. Then again, snow is not something I see with any regularity here. Perhaps images like this are more common in his locality, but I have seen hardly any comparable images on the Camel or any other photo forum I have visited or on actual greeting cards, Hallmark or otherwise, or even on any other printed media. If I were to see a lot more of these images, then perhaps the novelty might wear off and I might get the déja vu feeling that is part of the cliché experience, but that hasn't happened to me yet.

I can relate more readily to the music example of how difficult it is to convey visually what is mainly an auditory experience. Musical composers have a mirror-image problem of conveying a primarily visual - or tactile or emotional - experience with sound. There exist musical conventions in which certain musical keys or pitches convey specific colors, but the listener must have specific musical training to recognize the pitches, let alone associating them with the corresponding colors. It seems to me that such a discussion would tend toward opaque abstract philosophy, which is what I take Golem's reference to a "salon" forum. You might try something like this with individual images. I would really like to see Rense's comments on this idea. With his knowledge of artistic theory, he would be on my short list for moderating such a forum, if he is interested.
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Old 06-13-2016   #7
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

On a picture such as the snow scene, sooner or later I would go into "Sherlock Holmes" forensic mode and deduce what happened. In this case, I would deduce that the walkway had received a light dusting of snow, after which a single adult in pointed toed shoes in low heels has walked to what is most likely a mailbox located slightly to the left of the walkway and somewhat outside the image area at the top and returned. A small animal, most likely a cat, has also used the walkway, emerging from the lower left of the image and has gone to the tree or thereabouts, and is still outside. However, the direction the animal was going is ambiguous, so the animal may have instead come from the general direction of the tree and followed the walkway around the corner of the house. Whether the house has a side entrance for the animal and whether the animal used it to enter or exit is unknown. It is possible that the animal has come into the house from outside, but more likely the animal was outside at the time this picture was taken.
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Old 06-14-2016   #8
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

I'm still here, reading. Thanks for the reactions.

I'm not going to comment or clarify anything
more, at least for a while, cuz I don't want to
"steer" the discussion. I wanna see how it goes
on its own.
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Old 06-14-2016   #9
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

@ scoundrel:

This reply is NOT about my proposal. Stepping aside from the
broad idea I proposed, I just wanna offer you, in your Sherlock
Holmes mode, a bit of extra fun from the footprints picture.

You noticed the pointy toes. OK, now scrutinize the footprints.
I made them, quite intentionally, and yes they do go both ways.
There's something odd about the human tracks, and I hadda go
both ways to accomplish it. Maybe I didn't do a good job about
"the odd thing". I can't assess it myself, cuz I know what I did.

Being now told that there's a subtle strangeness, do you see it ?
Hint: Ignore the more distant prints. Study the closer ones
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Old 06-14-2016   #10
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Default Re: "Seeing Pictures", a proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golem View Post
@ scoundrel:

This reply is NOT about my proposal. Stepping aside from the
broad idea I proposed, I just wanna offer you, in your Sherlock
Holmes mode, a bit of extra fun from the footprints picture.

You noticed the pointy toes. OK, now scrutinize the footprints.
I made them, quite intentionally, and yes they do go both ways.
There's something odd about the human tracks, and I hadda go
both ways to accomplish it. Maybe I didn't do a good job about
"the odd thing". I can't assess it myself, cuz I know what I did.

Being now told that there's a subtle strangeness, do you see it ?
Hint: Ignore the more distant prints. Study the closer ones
I believe the subtle strangeness that you are referring to is the shoe tracks are aligned and with each matching print one print is in each directions leading a person to believe that your feet are spinning at the ankle while you walk.


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