Safe?

[jfrancho]

The throw is coming from third, so either it was a bad bunt (wrong direction) or it might have been a squeeze play - runners already on 1st and 3rd. That might explain the 1st basemen being in the weird position for the throw, as he might have been in the grass guarding the bunt.

[Mr. Pickles]

Does this help you all any? There is one telling item here that was mentioned...

IMG_5631_800.jpg

[keblerelf11]

That is a very good possibilty. He actually looks like he is pretty tied up trying to get into position. So covering a bunt and then getting back to the bag is a great opinion. Actually looks like he could have slipped Either way, back to the picture, it is very well composed, color is great, and clarity is top drawer!!!

[keblerelf11]

Nope, doesn't help, actually makes me wonder more, as the first baseman is in a very unusual position because in the first picture the ball looks chest high, but then in the next one he is on the ground. Well, I have said both safe and out, so I think I am pretty well covered.

[jfrancho]

He is out of the base path in the second picture, so it is an out by interference whether he beat the throw or not.

[keblerelf11]

Most umps will allow that as he looks like he is half on half off the bag. Especially seeing in the first picture the 1st baseman's foot was on half of the bag, so the umps usually allow the runner the back half of the bag within reason. At least in Michigan they do. I know it is different everywhere.

[jfrancho]

Once you get to the bag, you ok, but I've seen many Major and Minor league umps call them out if the runner is inside the 1st base line and collides with the defender. The idea is that they are protecting the defender's right to protect the base. High school rules may not follow this logic, but I'd think at that level, you'd want to encourage proper play. If I was a manager of the defending team, I'd be out of the dugout looking for explanation - Billy Martin style . I actually work with a triple a/college umpire, and I can go ask him about the rule to confirm it.

[jfrancho]

I got a ruling on this from my friend. If the runner went into firts base sliding, chest first, directly toward the bag, the 1st base line rule does not apply, and he is safe if he beats the ball to the glove. But only if he does not hinder the defender in this process. It looks like he wrapped up the defenders leg in the subsequent slide, and therefore is out via interference, whether he beat the throw or not. Furthermore, the out is recorded as an error on the runner, and if there were base runners, the base runners return to their previous bases where they were before the play.

So, the question is, did he touch the defender? If so, he's out.

[Lee4145]

John. Moot point. The ball beat him to the bag.

Mr. P is gonna screw this up and tell us he was safe, you watch!

[keblerelf11]

Wow jfranco, that was a great explaination. I played baseball all the way through college, and I have never had that happen or explained to me. Thanks. I coach 12-14 year olds now, and they are by no means allowed to slide into first base, except for diving back to the bag leading off or a snap throw etc. But if that should happen to my team, I will be out there Billy Martin style. Great stuff.

[jfrancho]

Originally Posted by Lee4145

John. Moot point. The ball beat him to the bag.

Mr. P is gonna screw this up and tell us he was safe, you watch!

We can't tell that from the pictures - in fact, he may not have even caught the ball! But, yes, Pickles is going tell us something like the 1st baseman missed the catch, and the runner was able to get a 2 RBI triple on the fielding error!

[jfrancho]

Originally Posted by Lee4145

John. Moot point. The ball beat him to the bag.

Mr. P is gonna screw this up and tell us he was safe, you watch!

Also, it isn't quite a moot point since the interference resets the runners to the original positions, so the hitter didn't do his job and advance the runners on the sacrifice. He is expected to be out on this type of play, if it is what I suspect it is - runners already on, less than 2 outs - but the interference call would add an out. If there was a runner on third, the run (and RBI) would be negated as well. Bad play.

[Lee4145]

I was just teasing you with the "moot point" business John. I appreciate your expertise in ALL areas but I keep laughing at this thread. It reminds me of the old Far Side comic where the dog is listening to his owner talk to him and in the dog's head he's hearing "blah blah blah blah..."

[jfrancho]

BlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahGood Dog GingerBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlah

LOL.
Anyway, I really love baseball -- as if you couldn't tell. I actually skipped out on watching the basketball game last night to watch the Angels beat the Rangers, one of three games I watched.

[jfrancho]

Now my buddy Paul says he could have been safe, if he beat the throw out (he thinks the throw was low). He thinks the batter caught the 3rd basemen sleeping, deep near the outfield grass, and layed a bunt down the left side, and tried running it out. Not a bad play if your the lead off hitter in a tied/no score game, facing a right handed pitcher.