OK GANG! It's idea timeOK gang it’s time to do our weekly brain storming session. We

[Ed Shapiro]

OK gang it’s time to do our weekly brain storming session. Well I just made it up but I hope we can keep this going..

So? What have y’all done and what are you doing to increase business and sales? What about some new techniques in the camera room or on location? Any new products to introduce? How are y’all doing about add on sales such as picture framing, matting and special finishes? Anything new in the office such as some nifty accounting software? Any new gear on the wish list or on the way from the dealer? Any problems and solutions to share like contract issues, collecting your fees and deposits on time. How about some cute promotions that will draw in new clients. Maybe a good DYI project?

Ask a question- give an answer! No lurking around here- lurkers will be boiled in hot chicken soup and served up with large matzo balls!

HELP- POST RIGHT AWAY!

Ed!

[Scrub]

Who am I to disobey the great and might Oz ....... I mean Ed .......

Nothing I am doing is fancy or new. I just went with some of the basics that many of you have said in other forums.

I have samples of sizes and products on the order tables at the dance studio. I went with more and bigger sizes than last time trying to emulate the show bigger/sell bigger idea.

I am using "real" proof books.

I have put out samples of two things I've never sold before in hopes of generating interest. A 10x30 show ticket that includes a 10x10 of the dancer on it, as well as the trader cards.

BIGGEST thing: I have not apologized for a single price, or offered a single discount or deal. So far it is working; order $ per ticket is about $7 higher than last year.

I know none of this is earth shattering, but I hope it will help people at my level to realize that the things you hear from the experienced folks really do work.

[Ed Shapiro]

[QUOTE=Scrub;1601703]Who am I to disobey the great and might Oz ....... I mean Ed ......]

Hey Scrub! That's a mean thing to say! I wanted this sub-forum to be COOL but not CRUEL You did not know it but I am a poet!

Come on now that ain't nice.

Let me let you in on a little secret of mine. I used to give seminars for professional photographers at one time of my career. I like to teach and to tell the truth; it was profitable too. I never took issues with photographers who did not agree with my advice or some who had a bit of difficulty in understanding certain concepts. I used to stay with some of my students late into the evening going over the lessons of the day and making sure everyone "got it" before going off to bed so that the next day's lesson would start of on a level playing field for all.

What used to bug be is when photographers liked my ideas, liked my images and nonetheless told me those dreadful words to the effect that "you are a great guy but what you are telling us ere will not work in my city or town". I never told them anything "fancy" YES- lots of things new and NOT to go home a throw out anything that they were/are doing and do everything that I do or suggest all in one fell swoop. I simply ask them to try one or two new concepts or introduce a new product or two and see what happens- to introduce new concepts and policies little by little. ''What frustrated me- I just spent 3 to 5 days withe theses souls plus half the nights and some of theses people didn't "get it" OK- some some did and later on told me that "it" worked for them. When other went home with no more inspiration or motivations, I felt I was not doing my job properly


I am not an ego tripper or a motivational speaker, an egotist or a hired gun to pump sunshine where the sun don't shine. I don't do a stand-up act! I am a photographer and a teacher. Sometimes frustration leads to hasty decisions so I got out of the seminar business for the most part. I do rack up some teaching hours at technical colleges once in a while but that's it!

I have never put myself up to be the "Great and Mighty OZ" All I can tell you is that I hang out at this forum is because the photography business has been good to me. It has allowed me to feed my family and live a decent andlow key lifestyle and every day that I work at my craft is a good day. I would like to see that go on for the younger generations of professional photographer in spite of some of the abominations that are going on in our industry which have made it a difficult place to really earn a decent living. I want to see things get better for y'all. Sadly enough, some of the problems, nowadays, that face new and even established photographers are self inflicted, oftentimes by pure laziness and complacency. I hope I am wrong and some of y'all just don't realize the potential of your own talents and skills and underrate and under sell your photography.

I suggest nothing outrageous- just do you best work and improve it on a consistent basis, market it well and set goals for a better and more stable income for yourself and your family.

Good on you for respecting some of the good folks on this forum- ain't nobody getting paid and the information is rich!

OZ- NO SORRY! it's only Ed

[OSD]

*delurk*

Ed, that was just a joke! I thought it was very funny. I'm willing to bet that you have taken it very much the wrong way.

Do you want input from not-yet-pros here or are we allowed to keep lurking?

[Ed Shapiro]

Tracey! I am still laughing !

I do have a very strange sense of humor however, much truth is said in jest!

You can lurk all you like. I wanted this section of the forum to be a place of learning, questioning, teaching and sharing. I would rather that people participate than lurk but that is up to each member.

I wanna learn as well. I have learned things from grand masters of our industry as well as rank amateurs. An extra set of eyes and thoughts is always helpful. Nothing can be better that a GOOD argument. Silly name calling just doesn't wash with me but I am not the bad sheriff here- just a moderator and I am not gonna "sensor" anyone anytime soon. I have no hard and fast rules except those of the forum itself. I an just appalling to all to keep it positive, professional, and very friendly.

Sincerely, Ed

[Scrub]

Glad you figured out I was joking around with you Ed. I find that my sense of humor is WAY out there, but I think you may be able to see it from where you are I have the utmost respect for you and several others here on the camel, and seek out your comments specifically in certain forums due to your experience.

I really think it is important to learn as much as you can from anyone you come in contact with that is working in the same or a similar profession, and then adapt it for your business. I.E. another photographer may not profit from adding the same specific product to their line up that I do, but if they do not try new products, they are assured that they will never profit from any of them.

[OSD]

I have a question!

What do you (pros) do to review & critique your projects? Do you have any formal tracking methods or do you just smack yourself in the side of the head when you realize something and move on?

I am at the point of offering free sessions (yes free, totally, because when I charge I am not going to start cheaply) to work out the mechanics of doing a session and working with clients. At this point I learn something from everything I do, pretty much, and at first I was thinking that would stop but now I'm not so sure. It seems to me that unless I stagnate I will be always be trying new things - whether it be technical, sales techniques, or whatever - and if I want to be realistic about how they work I should probably keep notes.

Thanks for any and all input!

[Scrub]

I am not an old pro, more of the "semi-pro and hope to be full time eventually" kind of guy, but I have selected a couple of people to work with on my ideas for sessions besides my daughter & wife, with the understanding that they will be treated just like any other customers, BUT the perk for them is that they get free/reduced sitting fees and or prints. I can usually get someone to work with me on any idea I have, and they quote my normal rates when friends and acquaintances see things they like.

It works for me, maybe something similar will work for you.

Also note that I do not include what I do with my wife and daughter in my normal rotation of new ideas because my wife is a TOUGH customer. I recommend you only take her on if you want a real challenge.

[Steven G Webb]

I haven't much new actually happening. This has become a challenging year and we took the business in a different direction. To now it's been more testing than working. So, the first of the year brought about a few changes. We took on a CPA and under her advice did all the things necessary to prove up legitimacy. We meet all the state requirements and have converted our accounting methods to standard bookkeeping practices. So, the business has an assumed name, a tax ID, it's own bank account and because we moved into some larger venues, liability insurance. It took days to catalog the equipment, serial numbers and fair market value. Who knew the value of the equipment I've picked up over the years.

We reduced the number of engagements this year because we picked up some larger shows. The hope was to reduce the number of working weekends and travel for smaller shows and offset the volume of work for the volume of customers at larger shows. That plan has not proven to be a good idea. 10 years ago, had I been able to make the move from the small shows to the big time things would be different. What we've found is the economy knows no bounds in affecting people's discretionary income. Also, by moving up the proverbial food chain to higher level competitions we've reduced the number of interested buying customers. At the lower end there are many 1st timers and young ones, not really good at competing but having parents supportive and enamored with a pictorial history. Bump it up a notch, and you find the middle. These are competitors who are neither beginners nor national ranked. These shows are stepping stones. Of course there are a percentage of competitors new to this level but it is small. Then there are a handful of picture crazy people who buy everything. The bulk of the competition is made of up folks at a plateau and not really in the market for yet another picture of themselves on the same horse they've been riding for 3-5 years. Next year, we'll spread out a little and pick up more of the smaller local shows. The difference in profits seems to be in the travel and lodging expense.

I do not want to grow old running cross-country chasing the horse show circuits. My evolution out of the fast lane and into a brick and mortar I will take up in a separate post.

[Ed Shapiro]

WOW! Changing you business model is a big job and much mre difficult than participating in critiquing activities. Realigning your business for future goals is a fabulous idea, especially in this day and age of crazy changes in the entire industry.

If you would allow me- I would like to add this to the new PRO forum- unless you want to re-phrase it as an article. Many people out there are due for a reassessment of their business model and make administrative and artistic changes and improvements.

Great post Steve!

Ed