Printing from LR2 shouldn't be this difficult

[brian.austin]

I'm about done with attempting this but I thought I'd toss it out to someone smarter than me...

I have an Epson R1900 as a first foray into self-printing. So far...unimpressed. Great for changing out pics on the walls and whatever but overall, this is far more trouble than its worth.

Printing from Photoshop requires a +2/3 to +1 exposure adjustment. It requires a bit more soft proofing than I feel is really necessary. It's not quite perfectly matched up to the monitor but pretty close.

The details:

Lightroom 2.3, latest Epson printer drivers, paper profiles for Epson Ultra Premium Glossy Photo paper. Monitored calibrated with Spyder2Pro.

I have tried printing from Lightroom with every single configuration available. Nothing matches my screen. Absolutely nothing.

Managing the color profiles from LR gives me overexposures with a green hue. Whites aren't even close. It doesn't seem to matter if it's ICM and Color Management is unchecked or the ICM driver is customized. Input color profiles don't seem to matter either.

Letting the printer manage them gives the complete opposite: at least 2 stops underexposed. Doesn't matter if it's PhotoEnhance or Color Controls. I got closer with adjusting the brightness on Color Controls but lost my black points.

Here's what I don't get. Export the same image to JPG with a sRGB color profile, use Windows Photo Printing Wizard and print it at defaults...and it's fine. Hold it up to the monitor and it's right on. White points, black points and color saturation are matches, at least to my eyes.

What am I missing??

[DAVE PROUTY]

You're not missing anything that a lot of other people have. I didn't have any luck printing from Lightroom, EVER! You would think that it would be as simple as printing from Photoshop, if anyone wants to call that simple. I mean, HEY, it's the same freaking software company! Why is Lightroom so difficult?

Sorry if I'm not helping, but I am feeling your pain!

One thing just came to mind though. After export to a JPEG or TIFF or whatever, printing that file from Lightroom. Probably no change, but I'm just as lost as anybody else.

[patterfr]

I have also completely abandoned LR for printing.
I got an epson 2200 and only do it from photoshop.
Damn shame too.
Maybe someone can help us all.

[Eero Makela]

Don't forget that you need to calibrate the monitor to lower brightness then the spyder recommends.

As per Eric Chan

"Even if your calibration software recommends setting the target luminance to a higher value (e.g., 120 cd/m2), I still suggest using a lower value such as 100 cd/m2."

Epson 3800 Step-By-Step Printing Workflow

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Eero Makela

Don't forget that you need to calibrate the monitor to lower brightness then the spyder recommends.

As per Eric Chan

"Even if your calibration software recommends setting the target luminance to a higher value (e.g., 120 cd/m2), I still suggest using a lower value such as 100 cd/m2."

Epson 3800 Step-By-Step Printing Workflow

Why? What's the point in using a calibration system if it's not truly calibrating the monitor with the custom profile?? Is there another option that I should be using?

EDIT: And, if the monitor calibration is so far off, why does everything ELSE seem to work for it?

[PhotoshopAbuser]

Brian, you are not alone man. I have yet to talk to anyone who uses LR to print. I gave up a long time ago and continued using Qimage with very good results. I spent way too much time in the User to User Forums over at Adobe and never did find anything. Every other module works great for me but that one.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by PhotoshopAbuser

Every other module works great for me but that one.

That's why I was hoping I could use it for printing. Guess not. Thanks.

[PhotoshopAbuser]

Some day maybe...Adobe has made some improvements to other modules so it's not out of the question that it may happen some day.

I don't really miss it that much though. I haven't been printing all that much here. I prefer outsourcing that part of my workflow and my lab is great.

[Eero Makela]

According to Eric Chan the brightness of the monitor needs to be lower so the printout will be closer to what you are soft proofing on the screen. I used those steps with my Epson 3800 and my printouts are very close to what they appear on the LCD panel that I run on (Dell 24")

Mind you I also run my computer in a darker room then most people. If your calibrator has a ambient calibration that also helps. Room brightness has an effect as well.

[tomrock]

This probably won't be useful to your current situation, but I use a Mac and an Epson 3800 and LR is my favorite way to print.

I have templates for common print sizes and paper combinations and all I have to do is select the images I want to print, click the template and click the Print button.

It works really well, colors are great, prints are appropriately sharpened.

What I do is choose the correct paper profile in the Color Management box and choose "No color management" in the Epson print dialog.

I'm just trying to say that LR can print successfully since so many replies say it can't.

Good luck.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Eero Makela

According to Eric Chan the brightness of the monitor needs to be lower so the printout will be closer to what you are soft proofing on the screen. I used those steps with my Epson 3800 and my printouts are very close to what they appear on the LCD panel that I run on (Dell 24")

Mind you I also run my computer in a darker room then most people. If your calibrator has a ambient calibration that also helps. Room brightness has an effect as well.

I'm aware of how calibration and ambient affects visual color representation.

You've failed to tell me why the difference, though.

Take a DNG file in LR. Minor edits, looks good on screen, send to print: too dark.

Export the DNG to JPG. DNG and JPG look IDENTICAL on screen. Use Windows Photo Printing Wizard and send to print: looks great.

Both use same print settings in the Print Properties.

WTF?

[PhotoshopAbuser]

Heh heh...perhaps there is a way to change the name of the print module from Print to WTF? .... seems more fitting to me

[Eero Makela]

Why the xxxx do I even bother

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Eero Makela

Why the xxxx do I even bother

Apparently the cussing replacement plug-in isn't working anymore.

Unnecessary. If you can't answer, don't. I already explained that calibration is irrelevant if one application prints differently than another yet both look the same on screen. Something else is wrong here.

[Mr. Pickles]

The filter works when someone with power notices. Anyway, I can see his point about tweaking the calibration a bit for personal preference or whatever you want to call it, but I know that if other applications or utilities will match the image on screen, and LR2 will not, then LR2 isn't working correctly.

I don't have a printer to try it on. Never really heard a lot of stink about LR2 not matching colors or brightness fairly well. Wonder if it isn't really reading the printer profile correctly if at all? Then again, if you let the printer driver and printer handle it all, it is the complete opposite?

I'd have to see that to believe it, but I believe you. If you have had 3 or 4 drinks today, try it tomorrow. if you haven't, then have 3 or 4 drinks and then try it all again

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pickles

The filter works when someone with power notices. Anyway, I can see his point about tweaking the calibration a bit for personal preference or whatever you want to call it, but I know that if other applications or utilities will match the image on screen, and LR2 will not, then LR2 isn't working correctly.

Which was my point.

I don't have a printer to try it on. Never really heard a lot of stink about LR2 not matching colors or brightness fairly well. Wonder if it isn't really reading the printer profile correctly if at all? Then again, if you let the printer driver and printer handle it all, it is the complete opposite?

Same driver, same settings when letting the printer manage colors. Different results from LR2 vs Windows wizard. Visually, on screen, the photos are identical.

I'm beginning to believe it might be the handoff from LR2 to the Windows API more than anything. Print to JPG gives me the same thing.

I'd have to see that to believe it, but I believe you. If you have had 3 or 4 drinks today, try it tomorrow. if you haven't, then have 3 or 4 drinks and then try it all again

Haven't started (yet) tonight but I'm all about experimentation. If one MUST make the sacrifice...

[Eero Makela]

Ok I just printed 2 tests with LR 2.1 , I told it to print using the paper profile for Photo Glossy (PGPP) Epson paper. Printer Drive was set to No Color Adjust, which is the way I find best (again based on Eric Chan's method). It is best to let the program do the color settings based on paper profile.
My Monitor (LCD) is set to 100 cd/m2. I use that when I print photos. For normal use like watching movies and other stuff I run the brightness higher. (setting of 10 vs 15 out of 100)

I don't think LR has soft proofing like PS (CS3)

Photoshop CS3 has way more options and easier to use then LR2 for printing.

If the Monitor is set too bright and if you adjust the image to look good on the screen it will print too dark.

Also in the Eric Chan he has settings for LR2

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan...html#lightroom

How to print images from Lightroom

ALSO

Don't forget that you need to let the print dry as it will look much different after it dries. Place a blank white sheet on top to soak up the moisture , and if the paper is wrinkled place another one on top and leave it for another day.

[Eero Makela]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

Apparently the cussing replacement plug-in isn't working anymore.

Sorry Brian

[Worm324]

I've had no love from Lightroom either when printing to my Canon Pixma Pro 9000, but it does print great to my Epson Picture mate PM 260. I have no clue why, but I was tired of wasting paper. PS I get a pretty darn close to my monitoe print when using the correct paper profiles.

I will read those links though and try again, cause Lightroom's printing is much easier than opening the file in PS every time

Best,
Jay

[Mr. Pickles]

Perhaps the real difference is in the image's color space? In PS, what color space is it in? In LR2, I guess it is ProPhotoRGB, so it is printing from that.

If PS is AdobeRGB then they would be different and that might make a difference, but you wouldn't expect a brightness issue. maybe a slight color shift sometimes. But who knows? Wonder if they are different, if you export the image as ProPhotoRGB and open in PS and print that, if it looks different?