budgeting for a printer

[august]

thanks tom! can you tell me about the types of paper that you have tried with it? have you determined a cost per print by any chance?

how does the ink hold up in terms of distance? are you finding yourself replacing the 50 dollar cartridges alot or would that be something that i should have on reserve right off the bat?

appreciate the input.

[Paul Shields]

August

Ink costs are a key part of calculating the value of running a printer. Generally the wider the printer, the cheaper the long term costs as ink plays such a large part in it (it's been said many times before that ink is worth much more than gold in weight). You need to look at the printer you're interested in to determine running costs. A quick google shows that an Epson 3800 is around 2 times more economical than the Epson 2400 purely due to the larger (and therefore cheaper) cartridges. I did have a link to a great cost comparison spreadsheet that had info for all the A3 and A2 pigment printers, but can't recall it for now. Things like ink usage is where the money goes though if you print often.

[Tom Swaman]

August,

Paul is totally correct and what he said applies to the Epson ink system.

Your question on ink cost cannot be answered until you select which Epson printer, what printing resolution you intend to use and what level of ink pitch you select. Epson recommends starting with printing from software at 300 ppi. However, Epson printers can print at 1440 dpi or 2880 dpi and some at other ink pitches. And, please remember that different Epson printers have widely different ink cartridge sizes and costs.

August, I rarely change out inks and it depends upon what your subject looks like. If you are printing B&W, you can well expect to change out the black family of inks as opposed to colored inks.

As for papers, if it can be printed on an inkjet printer, the Epson printers handle very effectively an extremely broad range of papers, coated, uncoated, synthetic, natural fibres, high rag content, low rag content or whatever.

August, I suggest you start researching the Epson site if this is your interest and/or contact their sales folks. These people are very helpful. I wish you success.

Tom

[luisv001]

August,

While all these answers have been great, I feel you are not getting to the nuts and bolts. I'll be much more direct. Less politically correct.

Epson. Hands down. The K3 ink set as mentioned is the way to go. There are a number of options for you in terms of size. Given what I've read I would too suggest going to the pro level Epsons. In short, 3800, 4800, 7800 or 9800 series. The last two are 24 and 44 inch printers. Perhaps too much at this stage. The 3800 and 4800 should be what to look at. The main difference sheet vs. roll paper. This has been mentioned. In short, roll paper is cheaper because it's a bulk purchase. Inkset is the same case.

On the output. Color Gamut is excellent and recently improved. You get rich vivid colors that are stellar. B&W is second to none. These printers far exceed anything I ever printed with traditional methods. In short, the richest blacks you will ever see.

I use the 7800 in a portrait/fine art studio environment. I print my own work and make good money doing it. Print costs, including paper, ink and waste is about $1 per square foot. Add to that the control of delivery at my convinience and it's pays for itself real fast.

On the RIP software. I use a RIP. You have three main advantages with a RIP, depending on what you buy. First, is that you print directly to the printer in it's native CMYK. It is not RGB that has to be translated as is the case with dirvers from the OS. If you want total control and accuracy, it cannot be beat. Second, you have a great layout tool. You can arrange images on the paper to minimize waste. Excellent when printing portraiture work. Not so important when printing artwork. Lastly, a good RIP can be used with a profile device (eg. EyeOne) to create your own profiles for your ink and paper combination. Again, ultimate control. I suggest Colorburst's RIP. Very good and it's worked well for me. Pricey, but worth it.

I too love the abilty to create my final output. It's a wonderful feeling and gives me the same rush as when I first saw a shot I took develop in it's bath. My only suggestions to you is, get the best you can afford.

To sum it up.....

Epson. I truly feel they are the bar by whioch all are measured.

If you can, go to the pro printer line.

Keep the consumables in mind. The bigger the tank and/or the roll of paper, the cheaper the print cost.

[Tom Swaman]

Luis,

Thank you. I did not want to say this until I learned more about what August wanted. Furthermore, he really never got back to us with whether he intended to use roll paper and this, as you know sets the stage in much more detail for a limited suggestion.

I agree with everything you wrote, except he may need to choose between one of the three 3800 models and the 4800 or the new 4880 which now is available. the latter giving a couple of very slight advantages, particularly for proofing.

Glad to have you with us, Luis.

Tom

[august]

thanks guys. i think that i will probably go for either the 3800 or the 4800, i just have to determine if sheet or roll is going to work for me. the reviews pn both have been reading have been fantastic.

q: i am assuming that a roll printer doesn't cut the paper for you...what the best way to do that with a roll printer?

[Tom Swaman]

August,

With these printers, your assuption is correct.

In volume, you may want to use a professional guillotine cuter like those made by Dahle or equal. I would not recommend a rotary trimmer for large volume cutting of prints from roll paper.

Tom

[luisv001]

No problem on the advice... thanks for the warm welcome.....

BTW. One thing I did not mention. There is one issue to contend with when you print on rolls. Go figure, there is never a perfect thing.... huh?

With roll prints you have to deal with the curve of the paper. In short, when a print comes out it will retain the "curl" it had on the roll. It's a bit of a pain, but there are ways to reverse it. Other than that..... it's well worth it.

[Tom Swaman]

Great addition Luis. You are so right and I forgot about that. It has been about 7 or 8 years since I printed on rolls.

I suppose I oughr to throw in the fact that if you print on rolls and mount on board, like a matte board, foam core or similar, you remove the print curl when mounting in one step.

Tom

[august]

any thoughts on paper?

[Tom Swaman]

August,

I have serious thoughts on paper. However, please buy your printer and tell us what you bought. After you get your printer working, I suggest you start with one or two papers only that are made by your printer manufacturer. At that time you might repost your question. Who knows, there may be a hundred new papers out to discuss.

Tom

[Mr. Pickles]

If you veer away from printer manufacturer paper and ink, you are just asking for a mind numbing excursion down unfamiliar roads.

The paper and ink is a key piece to the whole printing puzzle. Change one by using a different paper and Whammo. Change to 3rd party inks and whammo. The 3rd party ink can actually toast your print head prematurely and/or void a warranty on the print head.

If you are into doing test print after test print after test print and wasting ink and paper, then try it. You'll like it. And sometimes you won't know it isn't as good until a year after when the ink fades or bleeds or whatever.

Once you got it working the way you want it working, don't touch it.

[august]

k.

thanks again gents.

[Paul Shields]

I'm still patiently waiting for my HP B9180 to arrive, but have had a few packs of Harman gloss and matte paper already delivered waiting to be used. Martin (the B&W 'digital-monochrome' guy who posts occasionally here) kindly sent me a couple of example prints with Harman paper and they looked very good indeed. So long as there are known profiles out there then I wouldn't worry too much about moving from paper that is not from the same manufacturer as the printer. In fact you often have to to get certain paper types.

As for third party ink. I've been there, done that and didn't like it despite the cost savings. There may well be other 3rd parties out there though that are better.

[aam1234]

Paul, let me ask you a question if I may.

What's compelling you to print at home. From what I've read, there are more than decent print shops in the UK. You will probably give (the somewhat generic answer)...more control. But what does that exactly mean.

My understanding from the little research I've done, is that there are two aspects of "control". User's end and the printer's. Won't go through the user's options as they are obvious. But one has a lot of options with the online printers (paper, profiles, crop...etc).

The only reason I find for printing at home is volume. If one prints enough quantities then it makes (economic) sense.

What do you and others think.

[Paul Shields]

There are lots of good print shops both brick and mortar and online in the UK aam. The reason is mostly as you say - more control. To me that's an extremely important thing to have. Capturing an image is one thing, but it's useless for me until printed. If I want to try a different paper I can get the profile as I want it and know the end result is mine - not someone who had a different idea or paper or profile. I've used online printers a few times and the results are nice enough but I've not really found one that lets you have control over the paper and profile settings.