Questions, questions, and more questions...

[KellyL]

In my attempts to become a better photographer, I just need to know...

Are the shoulders at the right angle?

Is the head turned far enough to keep the nose from pointing at the camera? Should the head be turned further?

Are the eyes in the right position? How do you follow the guideline that the eyes should follow the nose without having the nose pointing directly into the camera?

Does the larger eye go further away from the camera or is it placed in front? To me, the logical place is further away from the camera.

How does one turn the head, and still leave ample white space on both sides of the iris?

Does the part in the hair determine the direction from which the light should come?

How much space do you leave above the head?

Did I have her feet in the right position? I had her point her front foot towards me, turn her back foot at an angle, place her weight on the back foot. Should I have had her lean forward a little?

What about head tilt? Should she have tilted her head to the left a little to bring in a little more s curve?

Why can't I get those darn lights in the right position? It is a science afterall, and once I find that sweet spot it would seem that I should be able to repeat the process and get the same results. I moved the light further around to try and get better shading, but I still don't seem to be getting professional results.

I shot the background light over the right shoulder using a 20 degree grid. Is it placed correctly? (Using the twenty degree grid was learned from Tim Kelly.)

In a three quarter pose, where does one crop below the waste? (Duh, Kelly, it's a 3/4 pose...) but still.....I second guess.

I did not have a hard copy of posing in hand for this, but worked hard at trying to do things from memory and feel the moment. I am having fewer wasted shots, which is an improvement.

And, the downsize, all my pictures are starting to look the same. I have to start learning more about posing, how to differentiate. Is the 3-1-2 style the same style used to turn the head in every shot?

I haven't done any cosmetic work to this image. I am more concerned about lighting and posing.

And I know her top isn't in key, but this pink against this backdrop is popular with the folks who see it.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by KellyL

In my attempts to become a better photographer, I just need to know...

Are the shoulders at the right angle? Yes.

Is the head turned far enough to keep the nose from pointing at the camera? Should the head be turned further? This is very close, but it could have been turned a little more.

Are the eyes in the right position? How do you follow the guideline that the eyes should follow the nose without having the nose pointing directly into the camera? The fill light follows the nose, not the eyes (generally anyway!)

Does the larger eye go further away from the camera or is it placed in front? To me, the logical place is further away from the camera. Nope. The larger eye should be closer to the camera.

How does one turn the head, and still leave ample white space on both sides of the iris?

By moving the eyes within their sockets!

Does the part in the hair determine the direction from which the light should come? I've never done it that way, but I've heard that preached!

How much space do you leave above the head? About what you have is good. That way you can crop exactly later.

Did I have her feet in the right position? I had her point her front foot towards me, turn her back foot at an angle, place her weight on the back foot. Should I have had her lean forward a little? It doesn't appear she shifted her weight to the rear hip/foot. I believe she still had some weight on the front foot. I always have them lean backward not forward.

What about head tilt? Should she have tilted her head to the left a little to bring in a little more s curve? Yes.

Why can't I get those darn lights in the right position? It is a science afterall, and once I find that sweet spot it would seem that I should be able to repeat the process and get the same results. I moved the light further around to try and get better shading, but I still don't seem to be getting professional results. Practice, practice, practice!

I shot the background light over the right shoulder using a 20 degree grid. Is it placed correctly? (Using the twenty degree grid was learned from Tim Kelly.) Looks good.

In a three quarter pose, where does one crop below the waste? (Duh, Kelly, it's a 3/4 pose...) but still.....I second guess. I crop just a little below the elbows.

I did not have a hard copy of posing in hand for this, but worked hard at trying to do things from memory and feel the moment. I am having fewer wasted shots, which is an improvement.

And, the downsize, all my pictures are starting to look the same. I have to start learning more about posing, how to differentiate. Is the 3-1-2 style the same style used to turn the head in every shot? Master this pose then move to another, then another then another, etc. Try out a new pose or try something different with each session.

I haven't done any cosmetic work to this image. I am more concerned about lighting and posing.

And I know her top isn't in key, but this pink against this backdrop is popular with the folks who see it.

Benji

[heartseye]

Respectfully......you have asked the wrong questions.....How about this approach....

Look at your model...carefully...

THINK about what you see, and what you FEEL about her...

Relax...close your eyes, and visualise her portrait printed, framed, and looking beautiful on a wall.

When you can REALLY see that in your mind.....THEN go shoot it......you will find most of your questions are now answered.......OK?.....Cheers, Bob

[KellyL]

Originally Posted by Benji

How does one turn the head, and still leave ample white space on both sides of the iris?

By moving the eyes within their sockets!

But when I have them turn their head too far, I lose the whites of the eyes in the corner of the eye overall!

[KellyL]

Benji, wanted to thank you for plowing through all of my questions. I really do appreciate it.

Bob, I do agree with you. Before I knew anything and just took pictures, I would just watch, and watch, and watch, and as my model moved during the session I would see a flash and say...STOP! THAT'S BEAUTIFUL! and snap. One of those images is a 16 x 20 hanging on a wall of some proud parents. Technically, the lighting is horrible. Putting that aside, it is a very beautiful picture, to me. I'll see if I can find it and post it. I whole heartedly agree with what you are saying. I don't want to lose the artistic sight that brought me to this place, but I also want to be able to refine my talent.

Thanks again, both of you, for commenting so generously.

[Dacoda Image]

Kelly... me thinks you are going to drive yourself crazy! Just kidding with you. I can fully understand your drive to want to improve your portraiture (as do all of us here), however it will come as Benji and the others have all said, with practice.

Heartseye does have an interesting point. While it is very important that we learn, understand and utilize the accepted guidelines for portraiture, we do not want to loose site of what the portrait is about... the subject... not the pose.

To me a pose is a tool, just like my camera, backgrounds, lights, photoshop, etc., and like with any tool you dont want to 'over do it.' It is important to ensure that we portray our subject in a manner that incorporates the best elements of the guidelines provided by Benji and the others, but that it is still about who is in front of the camera. But that is my personal philosophy on it, and that is all it is.

In each of your postings it is evident that you are a very talented photographer.

[KellyL]

Dakoda, that is very nice of you to say. I guess I should call you Stacey, but I really like Dakoda. Sorry Stace! Regardless, I do appreciate the encouragement. Do you know what I mean when I say I really can't see my own work?

[KellyL]

And to Heartseye Bob...the final question...

Was I able to capture the essence of the person?

[heartseye]

Originally Posted by KellyL

And to Heartseye Bob...the final question...

Was I able to capture the essence of the person?

Wow...Hard question...but I think not for me.
I always think that the work should speak for itself......I don't know this person, but even so, it SHOULD say something to me....and it doesn't.
When images are sent to juried shows, there are usually far more than the show can hang.....last show that I was a judge in had around 250 entries, and we could hang 60......and most of it was good stuff. SO.......The first round of judging is quite quick........the best just JUMP out at you. They have that 'magical' quality that just GRABS you.
Impact is another way of saying that somehow, on some level, the image calls out to you and says "LOOK AT ME"...and you do. And pretty well everything that hangs has that intangible quality about it.....
Magazine covers....book covers....have that quality too......among a sea of images, some just speak right up and you react.
So.....our job as photographers/artists is to go beyond the technical and imbue our work with that 'quality' that grabs the viewer somewhere.
So, yes, the technical stuff is VITAL.........but it is not the heart message. It has been said that "The heart knows what the mind cannot".....a good thing to bear in mind when designing your next shot........cheers...Bob

[Freezframe_2]

Originally Posted by KellyL

And to Heartseye Bob...the final question...

Was I able to capture the essence of the person?

Essence to me is a personal tool.....You relate to the subject through a personal bond or feeling ( A girl friend Maybe ??)...You try to pass it on !! In this case passion is the tool and ,photography is the ART.....

Brady

[KellyL]

The question of capturing the model's essence came to me after reading Bob's post. With Natalie's shoot I was driven by trying to get the lighting and the posing correct. I would try to bring out her personality, but in all of her images she is just another person standing in my garage while I try to employ what I have learned about taking photographs.

In this series of images, I was working very hard at the techincal aspect. I have come closer to getting some of the techinical aspects correct, but you are right Bob, none of the pictures just make me want to stand up and shout. My wife, on the other hand, says, "What's your problem?"

[KellyL]

This image, on the other hand, is when I was very first starting out. There isn't one techincal thing correct about this image, but the parents loved it and have a 16 x 20 hanging in their living room.

[Benji]

Kelly,

I love the last series of six images. It appears to me you have "captured" this young lady. You will find sometimes the subject and you "hit it off" and sometimes you don't. (Do like I do and only post the images where you hit it off!)

My only "complaint" about the last set is the image with the stepladder. I love stepladders. I've got four of them! Two I use for props, and two are usable as real stepladders I would use the one you posted as a "real" stepladder only. It is too tall and too new.

The stepladder May is sitting on (image # 1) I found as I took my trash to the dumpster. There it was, a beautiful rustic gray from sitting outside for several years where the sun could "cook" it. The bottom of two legs were splintered up about about 8 inches or so. I dragged it back to the studio, sawed off 10 inches off of all four legs (which turned it from a 60 inch ladder to a 50 inch ladder. It is too tall for "your" pose but is great for sitting people in.

Image # 2 has my other stepladder. It is 48 inches tall and was found at a second hand "junk" shop. As you can see they both make awesome props. I suggest calling some of the used merchandise shops in your area and see if they have an "already seasoned" one.

Benji

[Freezframe_2]

Originally Posted by KellyL

This image, on the other hand, is when I was very first starting out. There isn't one techincal thing correct about this image, but the parents loved it and have a 16 x 20 hanging in their living room.

I'm sure the parents love this picture because it's their girl ..They don't care about achieving technical perfection....They see that essence....That certain something that is felt through a personal relationship.....

Here is my relationship with essence ..This is my oldest son at the age of 16 yrs 6'1" 245 lbs. I've seen this smile sense he was a 22"long 8 lbs baby.... I look at this picture and ,no matter what the technical imperfection ..... I love it ...

To me I've captured his essense: Brady

[KellyL]

I don't know if you all can see the smile on my face or hear the joy in my typing, but I truly appreciate all that you have contributed here. When I revisited this thread to respond to your posts, I saw my images flash by and I thouhgt, "Wow! I took those!" Of course, without the wisdom of those who have gone before, I would not have been able to capture those images.

Benji, thank you repeatedly for not giving up on me. Thanks for posting those step ladder pictures. I WANT ONE! You also demonstrated some new poses for me to work on. I also REALLY like that background. Looks great with the stepladder.

Brady, after looking at that image and looking at your son, I did get a little choked up. Yeah, I know, I am a big softie...but you can see the pride in his eyes and the satisfaction on his face. Maybe it is because I never had a son that these things get to me, but great capture of one whom you love.

Bob, thanks again for commenting. You have given me so much to think about. When I look at the series that I posted, I think that number two and number three really captured who she is. A few technical problems with the lighting, but I am working through that.

Stacey, your thoughts are always welcome and appreciated. Who knows, you may even convince me to get a Yahoo account!

Thanks again for all of your support and taking the time to help someone out. I am in your debt.

[notsotechie]

Yes you have improved alot but I think that pink and blue is not a good match for colour also where she was siting on the chair the dark jacket and the light coloured dress seem to clash maybe it because of ythe chair very light coloured. on the last one I would have moved in closer so just to fill in the frame where her elbow is. It could have come out much better.

[KellyL]

I see what you are saying with the pink top and the blue jeans. Too much color contrast going on. I was desperate for a stool, so I grabbed the cream colored one. I really don't have a nice stool that goes with a blue background...so...in time I will invest...some more!

Thanks for the comments.

[neuromancer]

Well it depends what you really want from photography....If you want to become a good static traditional photographer, follow the rules and go crazy with them!
On the other side if you want to expand your OWN imagination and learn something new start from here:
Favorite photos

and follow your heart with CuttyShark!!!

[KellyL]

Amazing gallery. You should post some in the techniques section and explain how you processed some of them. Truly inspirational.

[neuromancer]

Thanks Kelly. Just for your info, I have posted this gallery just to show you that there is also another way of seeing things. Maybe a little out of the formal way of what we've have learned till now in those recipy photo books.
Watch the world in another way and trust your eyes, they won't let you down!