motion picture film cameras.

[Syphax]

i am hoping this thread will be moved and not deleted - as i am assuming it is posted in the wrong forum.

Anyhow, I am looking to get into motion picture filming, but i want a certain feel and look to it. very similiar to the filming at the beginning of this music video:

YouTube- Marilyn Manson - Mobscene

YouTube- Marilyn Manson - Mobscene

I want a camera that is vintage/antique from about the 20s or so.

If anyone has advice or suggestions please let me know.
Thanks!! :]

[Ed Shapiro]

There is no real place on the forum that addresses cinematography, per se, as a separate topic but I think I can help you.

First of all there is a chance that the video in question was not shot with film based camera equipment but with digital video gear and the various effects were obtained with creative lighting and post production digital effects to imitate the properties of old motion picture production.

In the early days of cinematography cameras were hand cranked and the pull down rate of the film going through gate of the camera resulted in the flicker effect you have noticed. Nowadays, the effect of flicker as well as scratched, damaged or dusty film can be simulated in post production.

Cameras such as the classic Mitchell are mostly found in museums theses days and if you were able to find one, I doubt if you could find stock (motion picture film) to fit that particular camera.

Film students today use 16mm equipment for their classes and experimentation- some used super 8mm gear but I don't know if any of that gear or film is still available. Cameras to look out for are the Bolex line of cameras. the H-16 equipped with Rexofade(tm) is a nice model that you may fine on the used market.

You will need to check with Kodak's cinematography division to see what stocks are till available. Some amateur shooters used to use Kodachrome and Ektachrome (reversal) stocks but Kodachrome is gone with nobody to process existing stocks and I don't know if Ektachrome is still spooled in 16mm. There are several negative stock still on the market but those require a lab that can process the negative material and produce prints and that can become expensive.

You might be better off doing things in digital video- all the gear is available and the editing equipment is awesome.

Some reading material that may be of interest to you is the American Cinematographer Magazine published by the American Society of Cinematographers (ASC) and their manual which is packed full of useful information and data. Look up the ASC on the Internet for more information.

I hope this has been of some assistance to you. Ed

[Ed Shapiro]

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[Ed Shapiro]

...and this: The BOLEX

[Latinbob]

Like Ed said, you can do it with vintage equipment, but I'm betting that clip was done digitally.

You can still get 16mm and 8mm movie film (check B&H) but you will spend a fortune on film and developing as you learn. One of the better 16mm cameras (in my opinion) is the Russian-made Krasnogorsk. They are hand cranked movie cameras and require no batteries or power source. You can find them used for around $700 or so.

Here's a link to the Krasnogorsk: Retro Thing: Krasnogorsk K-3: 16mm filmmaking on a budget I thought about getting one just to play around with.

Bob

[Ed Shapiro]

Ah YES! The Krasnogorsk- It was not crank operated- it was hand wound like many other hand held motion picture without electric motors. You wound it up like a wind up toy and it would give you enough time to shoot a scene. With a real crank camera you would actually operate the motor (the film transport).

My first studio in Montreal was in the same building as the Russian Trade Commission. There I first held the Krasnogorsk, yes- it could be hand held as long as you were Arnold Schwarzenegger (before he was a governor). Dropping that thing on you foot would assure you of a trip the the ER and it sounded like small arms automatic fire. In those days all Russian equipment was made like weaponry. They even had those imitation Hasselblads with rough machining, prisms that were dark at the edges and backs that fell off every now and again. There was a guy in New York who did nothing else but import them, fix the up and sell them at a reasonable price- the were kind of a knock off of the old Hasselblad pre C models but were not as well made.

A quick scan of the Internet revealed that allot of old Mitchell and other classic cameras have been updated and have been pressed back into service. There are a few niche markets where film for super 8 cameras still are available and that working models of old cameras are very costly, some in the multi thousands of dollars. For a price you can buy Charlie Chaplin's old Bell and Howell- got a quarter mil you don't need?

Unless you have unlimited finances and an affinity for old and strange cameras, look into some of the Canon digital video stuff- even the older models are good!

Ed

[fastpitch17]

Maybe jimmyd will stop by. He's a digital videotographer and can probably help with information concerning the above video.

[Syphax]

Thank you for all your help. It is much appreciated!

You've all given me a good basis for things to research.

[debbieloslo]

Have you considered playing around with stop motion photography?

I found it fascinating, and working in the graphics field, it seems more clients are very interested in this type of media.

This winter may be a good time to give it a try, this thread reminded me of my previous promise to myself.

I have attached a link to a youtube song that was done using it.

YouTube- Her Morning Elegance / Oren Lavie

YouTube- Her Morning Elegance / Oren Lavie

[Syphax]

i really don't like stop motion. i am more into noir filming and what my gf and i really aim for is 'olde' style filming. we are both fans of dada, degenerate art and the 1920s-late 30s.

however, for some of our projects i could possibly see stop motion in the future.