Photographing a murder

[Rense]

Warning before you read on, the material on the next site is shocking.
Only read it if you can stand the sight of a corpse.

In Naples a guy got shot. It is recorded on photo. My idea is that it can happen anywhere, so please don't write that this is specific to Italy. It brings on some tough questions:
- what kind of society are we becoming?
- is photographing this kind of thing right?
- is publishing this kind of thing right?
- can we change it ?

Here are twenty photo's of the murder
Here is a very shocking image: people just walk over the body.

[Benji]

I was in Naples Italy in 1968 when a man got up on the roof of a 25 story building and threatened to jump. A large croud assembled below and some began shouting JUMP (in Italian of course) and after several hours of tense negotiations he jumped.

Benji

[dakman]

I hope you'll take this the right way Rense but you're being a bit precious aren't you ?

This looks to be security footage and not someone taking still images .
As for the people walking over him I think at first they may have thought he was perhaps a drunk or involved in a fight and not wanting to be involved .

There is much worse footage out there and you normally have to go looking for it and it's usually rated or carries warnings .
Personally I don't like censorship and always find things like this interesting because when you read/hear about a murder you only have your own internal visuals which can never match the real sight and it strengthens my own abhorrence of violent acts like these when you see the reality of it .

I frequent a website that contains some of the sickest still images of violence , deprivation , hatred , and human suffering that I've ever seen and some of these images have made me vomit and upset me for days on a very core level but yet I still return because they hold a fascination of seeing something I've not seen before and of facing the reality of what the world around us is really like .

Some of my long held beliefs I've changed because of viewing this sort of stuff , in particular I never had a problem with abortion but yet after seeing just what the reality of it entails which I was not aware of my views are such that although I still support the right of the woman to abort I think that we as a species need to put the ambulance at the top of the cliff and not the bottom .

So I think if these type of images and videos are used to instill in people the motivation to not accept some of the crap that society turns a blind eye to ,then they do have some value , they will always have the voyeur aspect to them but that's life too .

Whether we dislike this kind of imagery or not isn't going to change the fact that these things will and do happen and ignoring it won't do any thing , but the footage of the reality of the Vietnam war helped bring about the end to that war a lot sooner .

[maxharvard]

Originally Posted by Rense

In Naples a guy got shot. It is recorded on photo. My idea is that it can happen anywhere, so please don't write that this is specific to Italy. It brings on some tough questions:
- what kind of society are we becoming?
- is photographing this kind of thing right?
- is publishing this kind of thing right?
- can we change it ?

I have some questions for you.

#1 - Murders happen daily, why would anyone think it only happens in Italy?

#2 - In response to your "What kind of society are we becoming" - Have you not been paying attention the past 30 or so years? Public murder is pretty common, especially in the US. Becoming it not the right word... What kind of society ARE we NOW?

#3 - No one 'photographed' it... I don't see anyone with a camera... I see a security camera just doing what it does. The camera was never meant to deter crime, it only helps solve crimes.

#4 - I'm not sure who published it... but I think it was in poor taste.

#5 - Can we change it? Change what? Murder? Never going to happen. Ever. Sorry.

I'm sorry, I just don't get the "shock" at this post. Perhaps, I'm jaded and desensitized to all of this, but if you haven't heard of or seen an assault/murder in your area, then you are probably just naive.

~Eric

[dryadsdad]

Originally Posted by Rense

In Naples a guy got shot. It is recorded on photo. My idea is that it can happen anywhere, so please don't write that this is specific to Italy. It brings on some tough questions:
- what kind of society are we becoming?
- is photographing this kind of thing right?
- is publishing this kind of thing right?
- can we change it ?

Here are twenty photo's of the murder
Here is a very shocking image: people just walk over the body.

I don't think there is any 'becoming'. Do you doubt for a second that if the tech existed 100 years ago, or 200 years ago, to produce these images that they'd be suppressed or not taken?

You seem to think that there is something intrinsically improper about either taking these pix or publishing them. I don't understand what that something may be.

In the US now, there is huge argument about news shooters taking pictures of the coffins of US military personnel who are killed in the various wars the US has started. Those who are opposed use the excuse that taking these photos violates some sort of privacy. Those who wish to show the photos say that those opposed are only wanting to cover up the reality that making wars makes also dead young soldiers and grieving families.

Are those who wish to show the coffins ghouls or are they reflecting the reality of wars? Are they capitalizing on young men's deaths or are they making the public aware that when dead numbers are posted, there are real humans behind those numbers?

I personally see nothing wrong in taking any of these photos and publishing them as well just as long as the fact that a photographer is there won't make the activity occur. As to those jumping over the body, well, why not? They would most likely think this is a drunk. I see many people laying down in public places near me. I never think they are dead but rather drunk or drugged. I doubt I'd step over one on the walkway, but I would go around instead (and I do).

[swampler]

Originally Posted by dryadsdad

As to those jumping over the body, well, why not? They would most likely think this is a drunk. I see many people laying down in public places near me. I never think they are dead but rather drunk or drugged. I doubt I'd step over one on the walkway, but I would go around instead (and I do).

Any of those have a pool of blood under their head, as shown in the image?

[dryadsdad]

Watch how citizens avoid looking at those drunk or drugged or crazy in the street. They won't notice this or maybe they were concerned about being infected with AIDS.

Where I am, if you ignore someone obviously injured, you are not liable. There is NO duty to render aid. However, if you do either render aid or appear to render aid, you must do so in a responsible manner. The upshot is that you are not at risk if you step over someone who you think is in distress but you may find yourself in a world of hurt if you try to render air or even appear concerned.

That's the law.

[Joves]

Well I grew up in Detroit so this happened quite a few times when I was a kid. People there usually gather in a crowd to see it and, then go about their day. That was in the 60s&70s, I dont imagine it has become any better. Just think of all of the photos that they used to take during the 20s - 50s with the Graphlexes and, then they were front page on the newspapers. There has always been an innate fascination with the macabre.

[dakman]

Originally Posted by swampler

Any of those have a pool of blood under their head, as shown in the image?

At first there isn't a pool of blood and most of the people steeping over him come from the opposite side of the blood .

[dakman]

Mafia shooting caught on CCTV | Video | Reuters.com
This link should be included here for reference , it is a short version of the live footage of the actual shooting and is best treated with caution as of the original pictures if you are indeed upset by these sort of images and footage .

[KarnyDoc]

For those also interested in the macabre, you may wish to go to rotten.com for more images.

Be forewarned, though, that it's not for the squeamish or those with weak constitutions, as many of the images are graphic.

Incidentally, not all of the pictures are captioned with "background information," such as the reason, medical cause, where, etc.

Dieter Zakas
Euwww, NJ

[Ed Shapiro]

Sadly, nowadays, murder has become commonplace in our society. There has to be at least 2 dozen television dramas based on murder, rape and torture aside from the war footage and the coffins. Why should any pictures be shocking when everything from axe murders to autopsies and clearly depicted on television and in the movies just about every night? OK- I like a good "who done it" or a action movie about cops and robbers. So what happened to all the robbers, fraud artists. folks who hold up liqueur stores and steal cars but don't kill anyone? I guess stories like those less morbid crimes get poor ratings because people are preoccupied with murder. One bloody murder is not enough; Hollywood and television has to get into serial murderers. Well, if someone is gonna commit murder what's wrong with a traditional knife or gun. The most "popular murderers" use chain saws and other power tools. If they really want to score points and sell lots of tickets you need a murderer who dismembers his victims and serves them up for lunch.

I don't believe in censorship or totally sheltering our children from knowing the harsh realities of life but when so little value is placed on human life, even in a theatrical sense, what is to be expected from future generations.

The pictures are there- security camera footage, real life tragedy and fiction and as long as society craves for the images they will continue to be accessible to all in every kind of media.

"THE PROGRAM YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE CONTAINS GRAPHIC SCENES OF VIOLENCE AND DEBAUCHERY. VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED" This disclaimer is all you need to broadcast murder in all of its configurations and methodologies. Isn't that effective, especially when the viewer who needs to exercise discretion is your 10 year old with his own TV and computer.

Ed

[patterfr]

Why is it that everyone thinks murder is new? SOme new atrocity that has only recently developed?
Remember Cain and Abel?
You think there was any murder in caveman times?
Roman empire?
Medieval times?
Wild West?
There's no shortage of murderous activity I am sure throughout the centuries.
To pretend that it's a recent development is to ignore history and the penchant that people have always had to mistreat and kill each other.

To kill someone over a pair of basketball shoes or a drug deal gone bad while captured on film doesn't make it any worse than shooting someone with a bow and arrow while he trollops through Sherwood forest to steal his bag of gold.
The only difference is now we have cameras that catch it on film.
And now we have movies that seem to glorify it.
But you can be sure it's been going on for millenia and while the world may be going to hell in a hand basket, it has certainly started that journey a long time ago.

[xxloverxx]

I see absolutely no problem photographing & publishing this kind of photo, regardless of who took the photo & who published it.

I'll be honest, if I were there, I would've been shooting (with the camera) like crazy, and it would've been on my blog within hours.

"Can we change it?" - if you mean, can we change peoples' minds about publishing photos (on personal blogs or otherwise) hours (or minutes) after something happens, I say definitely not.

[swampler]

Originally Posted by dakman

At first there isn't a pool of blood and most of the people steeping over him come from the opposite side of the blood .

Make up your mind, is there blood or not? Looked to me like there was.

[Jake Elizalde]

[QUOTE=xxloverxx;869737]
I'll be honest, if I were there, I would've been shooting (with the camera) like crazy, and it would've been on my blog within hours.
QUOTE]

I doubt your blog wouldve been updated again. You wouldve most likely been killed.

[xxloverxx]

[quote=Jake Elizalde;870602]

Originally Posted by xxloverxx

I'll be honest, if I were there, I would've been shooting (with the camera) like crazy, and it would've been on my blog within hours.
QUOTE]

I doubt your blog wouldve been updated again. You wouldve most likely been killed.

That would depend on the intent of the murderers and the distance from which I shot it.

[dakman]

Originally Posted by swampler

Make up your mind, is there blood or not? Looked to me like there was.

What I said was at "first" there wasn't blood , which there wasn't

[oldugly]

Seems to me this isn't new. I do believe some guy made a pretty good name for himself by taking pictures of piles of dead bodies during the American Civil War. (Mathew B. Brady for those of you who didn't have to study american history.) Does that make it anymore palatable? Hell no.

For all of our protestations, humans are a pretty violent species. The one bright spot seems to be the human virus is so busy killing each other, that we can't spend the time and effort to get off of this doomed planet and infect the rest of the universe.

[transcape5]

Originally Posted by oldugly

For all of our protestations, humans are a pretty violent species. The one bright spot seems to be the human virus is so busy killing each other, that we can't spend the time and effort to get off of this doomed planet and infect the rest of the universe.

Sad but true.