Preparing for my first product/model Shoot -- Critique my plan?

[erozier2]

Hello everyone,

I'm preparing to do a series of paid shots for a local University. One of the department's bookstore branch has some new clothing they'd like to advertise and so have contacted me to shoot for them.

I'm pretty nervous as I've never shot studio portraits or products before. The closest I've come to doing so is some engagement photos I shot for some friends, which was done almost entirely with natural lighting.

My contact has indicated they want shots that look more or less like the following images:
http://s7.landsend.com/is/image/Land...6_A509_FF_MXX?
http://s7.landsend.com/is/image/Land...9_AE09_FF_MXT?
http://s7.landsend.com/is/image/Land...8_AF08_FF_OOK?
http://s7.landsend.com/is/image/Land...0_A509_FF_OOK?
http://s7.landsend.com/is/image/Land...0_A509_FB_OOK?
http://s7.landsend.com/is/image/Land...1_A809_FF_TVY?
http://s7.landsend.com/is/image/Land...5_A609_FF_BLA?
http://s7.landsend.com/is/image/Land...8_AG06_M1_TVY?

Equipment wise for lighting I have the following:
SB-600 w/ Stand and Shoot through Umbrella
Silver/White reflector with boom stand

I'm debating on shooting with my 50mm f/1.8 or 55-200mm f/4-5.6

My plan for lighting is to try the following set ups:
SB-600, High and in front, angled down
Reflector, Low in front, close to model

SB-600 on right, at level of model
Reflector to left, at level of model
Short side lighting

I'm looking for general critiques on this plan, and help with the following general questions, if you folks would be so kind:

1) None of the models are in fact models. All are students with no experience, and I've never met them (picked by the department). What should I be ready for? What's the best way to communicate poses to them (especially focusing on the Land's End poses that the department has already indicated).

2) The room has windows that will be shuttered, and lighting in the room. Do I need to switch these off before taking a shot? How does one best handle having enough ambient light in a studio for safety, yet still not have it color the photos themselves?

3) What should I expect at my first shoot? Any other tips or tricks? (I've read Benji's guide to portrature and the lighting diagrams from mickdonnelly, great resources!)

[Ed Shapiro]

Hi!

Fashion photography in 3 easy lessons- not gonna happen and here is why: You have been given an assignment which involves replicating a body of work which you are not presently equipped to do in terms of equipment and perhaps experience as well. Please do not take this as an insult or a harsh commentary- I really want to help you.

The images you showed have white backgrounds and you will need at least two lights simply to create that effect- the background has to be lighted separately by two lights, each at 45 degrees to the seamless background paper or cyclorama. Another 2 lights (at least) will be needed to light the subject- one fill light and one main light. One light on a boom stand will really not cut it. In the case you have outlined, besides the background lights, you will need a fill light placed behind the camera at a distance of about 12 feet and at an elevation of about 12 feet. The main light can be placed anywhere from 20 to 45 degrees from the camera/subject axis. The exact angle is determined by the effect you want and the angle at which your models will be photographed. I would suggest that you use your umbrellas as reflectors rather than shoot through diffusers.

The examples you provided are not very good- the lighting in some are rather flat and in some cases the subject is too dark and the background lighting is too strong and is causing some flare and fringing. On some the composition is very bad- the images are cropped so as to “truncate” the models- the ¾ length poses are cut at the end of the garment and hands that are in the pockets are “amputated” in that the fingers are cut off at the knuckles- you need to show at leas the thumb and there are other ways to comfortably pose the hands.

One of the most important aspects of fashion/catalog photography is attention to detail. There are many images with wrinkled sleeves and sloppy styling. You need a “stylist” to assist you with this- a second set of eyes, perhaps a young lady, to make sure everything is neat and tidy- tucked in properly and also to help with last minute adjustments to hair and makeup.

Checking out Benji’s tutorials was a good idea but in some instances, fashion photography is quite a bit different than portraiture, however, you can’t go wrong if you follow Benji’s posing and lighting directions.

If you are working with non-professional models, there is nothing wrong with the “girl or guy next door look” as long as you can guide them in posing and you able to come up with some decent lighting. In fashion work the emphasis is one the clothing but the models should appear somewhat attractive as well. You don’t need top models to create nice images but non pros will need more coaching in establishing good poses which show off the garments properly and is flattering to the models as well. Professional models are selected for their talent and body styles as well. There are many beautiful people that don’t stand up to the “specs” as to size, weight, height, proportions shape and facial features. Theses professional models are trained in all the various aspects of modeling- makeup, posture, gait, expression and many other required skill sets. With non pros you will have your work cut out for you- you want to flatter the models (visually) and make sure the garments are hanging well. Establishing a calm and happy atmosphere will help relax your models and enable them to pose more easily. Some background music and some light snacks and soft drinks are also good ideas.

There is no tricks- just hard and diligent work. To compensate for any lack of skills or experience- shoot many frames- bring plenty of cards. You may have to rent more lights. Once you have the lighting right, keep things simple- keep image sizes, camera distance and lighting uniform and concentrate on the posing and expressions as well as the details.

Your Speedlights have no modeling lights. You may want to consider improvising one by mounting a simple display type 50 or 75 watt flood lamp in the umbrella rod of your main light so you can see the lighting patterns. Room light or window lighting, unless the light level is very high will not affect your electronic flash exposure. Use the maximum flash synch shutter speed allowable with you camera. Make sure you know what that speed is!

I hope this helps. Ed

[erozier2]

Thanks for the comments Ed! One thing to keep in mind is that my clients and I both know what they're paying me (only $10/hr), and I've told them I won't be able to get the pure white backgrounds, etc, with the limited equipment I have. Under that restriction, and the fact that they only budget I have beyond that is for a seamless background (around $60), I won't be renting equipment. The situation is they have no budget, but want what they can get with the budget they do have. We're setting up 3 2hr shoots to cover the products (though honestly we may need more time as they want to shoot several hundred items), and they're paying me for that and 3 hours of post processing per shoot. So they're not expecting professional catalog shots, per se.

That being said I still want to give them the best I can with what I have. I may not be getting paid much, but I've developed a rapport with these folks that is getting me some exposure, experience, and I've kept them happy so far.

Do you have any suggestions on how to best light a model with the limited equipment I have to achieve (a somewhat close to) a good catalog look? Which catalogs do you think have the best lighting for the products (i.e. are there any good examples of what you think is ideal)?

I had thought I might try to whiten the background in post. How feasible is this?

[Ed Shapiro]

If you are stuck in the situation that you have described get some background that is light gray rather than white and use the lighting that I have illustrated in the diagram called "ballroom lighting" as I attached to my last post. Try to beg or borrow one more light or if your camera has an on board flash try using it for a fill light in bounce position if it has such a feature. Use your reflector to boost shadow detail if needed. One single light may give you very harsh shadows which can cause problems if the images are to be reproduced in printed matter or even in an on line catalog.

I have looked at a few catalogs I have here and all of them were done with some kind of multiple lighting. Question: If the client was pleased with your work in the past, what lighting did you use and why not stick with it?

If you have to take backgrounds out in PhotoShop you will end up with more time than if you do it in the camera at the shooting stage.

If you are planning a career in commercial photography, what ever the outcome of this assignment it will yield good experience and practice for you. The element to remember for the future is that you need to organize a price schedule and a price for each job and factor in your profit as well. I have been a professional photographer for over 50 years and I can tell you that many clients have come to me with top quality ads from Vogue Magazine and ask me I I can replicate that kind of quality. Sure I can, but many of theses people have no idea of what goes into a seemingly simple advertisement. The budgets on some of theses gigs are outrageous and clients have to be informed as to the realities.

Incidentally, when lack of studio equipment was a problem, I used to do some of theses assignments out of doors with back lighting and reflector fill. I would throw the backgrounds out of focus and suggest certain elements in the background or just have random circles of confusion serving as the background- the results canbe awesome.

Good luck, Ed

[erozier2]

Thanks again for the reply Ed, I really appreciate your comments and criticism.

Originally Posted by Ed Shapiro

If you are stuck in the situation that you have described get some background that is light gray rather than white and use the lighting that I have illustrated in the diagram called "ballroom lighting" as I attached to my last post. Try to beg or borrow one more light or if your camera has an on board flash try using it for a fill light in bounce position if it has such a feature. Use your reflector to boost shadow detail if needed. One single light may give you very harsh shadows which can cause problems if the images are to be reproduced in printed matter or even in an on line catalog.

Your ballroom image has two lights (as opposed to my one), and I'm worried my on camera flash will fall off too rapidly. Is there any merit in trying a set up similar to the one pictured here? My thought is this would help minimize shadows if I expose for the reflector lit areas, giving me highlights on one side, and midtones on the other.

Question: If the client was pleased with your work in the past, what lighting did you use and why not stick with it?

We've never done this sort of shoot before. This "job" has been a bucket of surprises, but has kept me on my toes as far as assignments go, as well as forcing me to stretch outside of my comfort range. So far I've shot the following for them:

Midnight theatre festival, natural light only
New student orientation party (candids, natural light only)
Student league softball games

So we've never done any assignments with lighting yet.

If you have to take backgrounds out in PhotoShop you will end up with more time than if you do it in the camera at the shooting stage.

Understood.

If you are planning a career in commercial photography, what ever the outcome of this assignment it will yield good experience and practice for you. The element to remember for the future is that you need to organize a price schedule and a price for each job and factor in your profit as well. I have been a professional photographer for over 50 years and I can tell you that many clients have come to me with top quality ads from Vogue Magazine and ask me I I can replicate that kind of quality. Sure I can, but many of theses people have no idea of what goes into a seemingly simple advertisement. The budgets on some of theses gigs are outrageous and clients have to be informed as to the realities.

I'm not looking to go the pro-route really, just semi-pro. I'm actually pursuing my Ph.D. in Engineering, but I'm absolutely in love with photography, and really, really enjoy shooting just about anything which has led me to taking several assignments for free, and then recently having been approached about a this current low paying gig. Right now I'm looking for experience, and the extra cash on the side to grow my equipment with and slowly turn this into a small side gig to my main job.

I enjoy shooting just about anything, and I figure, why not get paid a bit for it? I'm pretty pumped (and nervous) about this product shoot, and to me it's just as thrilling as the prospect of shooting the grand canyon on vacation.

I get what you're saying about what things cost though. At the moment I figure I'm getting experience, exposure, and publication credits which all have value outside of the $10/hr, not to mention the references. Plus since the job is for a public institution which I'm getting my PhD at, albeit in an unrelated area, it feels good to give back.

Incidentally, when lack of studio equipment was a problem, I used to do some of theses assignments out of doors with back lighting and reflector fill. I would throw the backgrounds out of focus and suggest certain elements in the background or just have random circles of confusion serving as the background- the results canbe awesome.

That's an idea. Although the weather really is not cooperating lately. It's been raining for weeks.

Outside of the lighting front, does anyone have a link to a good guide on how to pose models? The general rules I've heard is hands off, tell them how to pose, but how does one communicate effectively along these lines?

[Brooks]

Here's a simple ONE light, white background setup. Look at the diagram and if you have any questions feel free to ask. The diffusion panel reduces the light on the subject by at least one-stop, depending on the diffusion material used. The raw light illuminates the background so that it's brighter than the subject. Angling the paper background towards the single light allows even lighting from left to right on the background.

Hope this helps.

[Brooks]

Originally Posted by erozier2

Outside of the lighting front, does anyone have a link to a good guide on how to pose models? The general rules I've heard is hands off, tell them how to pose, but how does one communicate effectively along these lines?

You demonstrate the pose for them.

[felix.reichardt]

Originally Posted by Brooks

Here's a simple ONE light, white background setup. Look at the diagram and if you have any questions feel free to ask. The diffusion panel reduces the light on the subject by at least one-stop, depending on the diffusion material used. The raw light illuminates the background so that it's brighter than the subject. Angling the paper background towards the single light allows even lighting from left to right on the background.

Hope this helps.

awesome, I'm going to try that angled background the next time I have only one light for a white bg.

[erozier2]

Wow, thanks Brooks! That looks like it's a fantastic idea!

[erozier2]

Hey all,

So I finished the first shoot yesterday, the next is scheduled for tomorrow at 10am Central. I played with the lighting but couldn't get something satisfactory with brook's design. I'm sure I could with unlimited time, but we were on a schedule, and I didn't want to eat up a lot of my client's or the model's time.

I ended up going with something more or less like this:



The results impressed my clients, and I think the results were decent, though they could be improved. I'm working on permission to post them here for critique.

Working with the models was fabulous. All the models were student volunteers from the law department, so I was a little worried that things would not go smoothly, that they would be nervous, etc, etc, etc.

As it turned out they were all law students who always figured they could pass for a model, and they were pretty eager to try out the parts. Each wanted to do some "fun" poses (jumping in the air, seductive, etc) of their own invention as well as those the client wanted, and I decided to go with it. It's just bits, and I carry 3 8-gig cards, plus a few 2-gig backups. I think this was DEFINITELY a good idea. While we'll likely throw out all of those shots, the models were having a BLAST, and I was too. They all wanted to review their shots immediately, and were laughing, smiling, and having such a great time, that their smiles in the photos were absolutely their best, and absolutely genuine.

Even with this extra time, we got through about 80% of the clothing in two hours of shooting, while the client had only planned on us getting 40% of the way, which is a major plus. My clients were happy, my models were happy, and the experience was awesome.

I'm actually looking forward to getting up at 7am for the shoot tomorrow!

[generic]

Well,

how did it go.??

[erozier2]

Pretty well it seems, I haven't had a chance to review my shots yet as my real job is under some deadlines, but again the models were awesome, and the quick review I did after each shot seemed to go smoothly. One last product shoot is scheduled for this Friday.

[jeff martin]

my clients and I both know what they're paying me (only $10/hr),

Come on. That's not enough to cover "renting your equipment." I live in small town, OH and the Walmart (known for cheap wages) pays 8.25/hr and you don't have to show up with a couple of grand of equipment.

Point 2. You don't need permission to post them here. You own the rights to the images.

I'm actually looking forward to getting up at 7am for the shoot tomorrow!

I hope you had a good time. No sarcasm intended.

[erozier2]

Originally Posted by jeff martin

Come on. That's not enough to cover "renting your equipment." I live in small town, OH and the Walmart (known for cheap wages) pays 8.25/hr and you don't have to show up with a couple of grand of equipment.

As I've mentioned before, I'm not doing this for the money. I've got a day job that pays quite a bit more. This is my hobby and I'm doing it for the experience and because I enjoy it.

Point 2. You don't need permission to post them here. You own the rights to the images.

Part of my contract stipulates that the rights are transfered to the state. However I just got cleared today for non-commerical use so I'll be uploading some by the weekend.

I hope you had a good time. No sarcasm intended.

Definitely. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[jeff martin]

Originally Posted by erozier2

I've got a day job that pays quite a bit more. This is my hobby and I'm doing it for the experience

If your goal was to get experience with the goal of making money at photography, there is a flaw in your plan. You've established the market value of this type of photography for the University. Don't get me wrong. You have the right to sell you services for what ever you want. Doesn't really matter to me. I also have another (main, by far) source of income. Just keep in mind that you have put the value of these photographic services at $10/hr. In the future, when you can't get more than this for your time, part of the reason is you.

[erozier2]

Originally Posted by jeff martin

If your goal was to get experience with the goal of making money at photography, there is a flaw in your plan. You've established the market value of this type of photography for the University. Don't get me wrong. You have the right to sell you services for what ever you want. Doesn't really matter to me. I also have another (main, by far) source of income. Just keep in mind that you have put the value of these photographic services at $10/hr. In the future, when you can't get more than this for your time, part of the reason is you.

My goal is to become a better photographer, and get paid a bit to increase the size of my kit. One day I might derive some small amount of income from photography, but I'm working on a Ph.D. in Engineering, so I'm not counting on photography for my pay check, and doubt I ever will.

Besides which, I offered to work with the University for free. We all work for the same institution, we all belong to the same state governmental entity. I'd have happily just done the project to stay active. Getting $10/hr is a nice side benefit, and this month alone I'm going to pick up $500-$600 from it. And I've probably spent *less* time, not more behind the camera this month.

[km6xz]

You might not be loved by photographers for doing it for less than they would but you have the right attitude, for fun and the learning experience and I am sure that is one reason the light fun mood translated to the models and elevated the whole event.
Good luck and good fun!

[richardpcrowe]

Before photographers used lights to illuminate their subjects, they used the power of the sun.

If you could find an outdoor location to conveniently and safely set up your background, you could accomplish the lighting by using foam-board reflectors powered by the sun.

[Ed Shapiro]

Hey Gang!

It is really difficult to critique plans like the ones in question here. One of the reasons for this difficulty nowadays is the poor state of affairs in acquiring a photographic education and working experience. Many of the colleges and private photography schools don’t really prepare their students for the rigors of the photography BUSINESS and the practicalities and methodologies of pricing their work and understand how to profit form their efforts. Some schools don’t even teach practical skills in the photographic aspects of the business either. Furthermore, the availability of formal on the job training, apprenticeship and mentoring are practically non-existent. Many amateurs flounder around for years with no real direction and never have the opportunity to learn the business as it should be practiced with skill and the profit motive in mind.

I was very fortunate as a teenager wanting to become a professional photographer but learning the “trade” was somewhat difficult in those day and school such as NYI were expensive. I became a bit desperate and anxious to get experienced so I offered my services to a neighborhood studio photographer for free in return for his teaching me. I was very surprised when he told me that he did need a bit of extra help but I he was going to teach me how to be a professional photographer he would have to pay me at least a token but fair amount because the first thing I needed to learn was that professional photographers need to be paid fairly and commensurately for level of quality work and since I was going to be a new upstart, I would not be paid very much for my labor but I would get raises as I improved and gained more useful experience. That was probably the best lesson I have ever learned- he said “we are in business and we are not running a school or a camera club”! He reminded me that paydays were every Thursday and not to be ashamed to accept my wages! We taught me to always ask for deposits and fees when customers come in- “we are in business and we don’t do this for fun”. He also said that the people who come to us as clients us are paid for their work and expect to pay us for ours- very basic but a fair and practical philosophy and mindset.

Having stated all this, you can see where the vicious cycle of poor work, poor pricing and all that goes with it persists year after year. After many years in the photography business I have formed a number of opinions and some may seem hard nosed and harsh bur believe me, they are real!

To me, there is no such thing as a “semi-pro” regardless if one does photography full or part time and offers his services as a professional photographer they need real professional skills and charge real professional prices which are commensurate with professional caliber work. If the don’t have the skills, the know how and the wherewithal to do high quality work, the should the offer their services as an amateur and may the Lord have mercy on their clients and the photographer who may end up with a lawsuit on his or her hands.

Think of it in theses terms; when you want professional services you seek out a real professional and fully qualified individual. If you entrust the job to an amateur, you get what you pay for and take your chances.

I find that there is little use in arguing with folks who insist on doing things in a half-assed manner and them saying the want to go professional. If anyone wants to become truly professional and make a decent living at it- well then- get professional- get the education, find the mentorship, put your mind to it and do the right thing! If you want it badly enough, you will find people who will help you.

Ed

[erozier2]

Thanks for chiming in with your opinion Ed. I'd agree in general with a lot of what you're saying, but would like to point some things out in particular to my situation.

1) I'm not looking to go pro, now, or ever. I've just put 5 years of my life into a graduate engineering degree, plus four years of undergraduate, and a few years in between working for the feds. I love my camera, but it is and always will be a hobby.

2) Were it any other client, I'd be looking for more pay. But they don't have the budget, being a public University in the midst of a hiring freeze, and had been surfing flickr for their photos before we got connected. So it's $10 an hour, or for free, and quite honestly, I'd do either because *I am* doing this for fun.

Call me crazy, but I really enjoy shooting models, and working this sort of stuff. I spend all week working integrals, and transformations in metric spaces on labeled transition systems, and coming up with new ways to decompose multi-resolution mathematical models. Dropping that, and pulling out my camera is fun. If I wasn't shooting for these folks, I'd be off shooting something else around town, or begging my friends to model for me so I can try stuff out.

3) I'm gonna agree with this article from Strobist: Strobist: Four Reasons to Consider Working for Free

Now I'm not working for free, but close to it. The bonus is at $10 an hour, I've made enough this month to buy two new lights with Pocket Wizards, or more if I go with cheapo Cactus triggers. That means my wife isn't gonna kill me for buying new gear for once.

I call that a win.

Now I'll admit up front that I am an amateur, still learning, and I'll probably always be a bit of an amateur. I doubt I'm alone on the boards as someone who is never going to have time to get trained fully and professionally. I put in 60 hours+ a week working for a state contract which is paying for my Ph.D. When I get out of here in a year or so, I'm gonna be on the tenure clock for the next four years, or post-docing, with little free time. After that it's going to be grant proposals, conferences, advising and teaching, which is more or less my life now.

I put my free time into photography, and hopefully will grow my skills. I may continue to do side jobs as part of that, and hopefully be able to get paid a decent amount for it. But it'd be pure fantasy to believe I'll make my living at photography, even if I wanted to try that route, my sunk costs in my current career are too high.

But I suppose it's my fault in the way I set up this thread, I was more looking for some advice on setting up for/what to expect from such a shoot. Which I got (many thanks to those involved). This weekend I'm gonna post-process the shots and write up a summary of my experience, as I think I learned a lot, and regardless had a blast learning it!