How do you narrow your final picks from a shoot?

[waple]

I had a shoot yesterday of a brother and sister where I took shots of them together and separately on different backgrounds. I took about 150 shots total and I've narrowed it down to 55 now. But I know I should still drop that number down some.

I guess my first question would be, how many final images do you prefer to have? I'd assume it's contingent upon the number of wardrobes/looks/settings, etc. Do you have any guides like "for each look/setting I'll have no more than 6 shots" or "I won't have more than 24 finals no matter how long the session was or how often things changed"?

What I do is:

1. Import everything into Lightroom is go through and mark all the obvious rejects (flash didn't fire, way out of focus, model with a 'not ready' look, etc).

2. Go through again and rank everything from 3-5 stars (I should probably do 2-4 though).

3. I then look at all the 3's only and rerank to 2 or 4 if need be. And then I'll delete all the 2s.

4. After that I do closer side-by-side comparisons between two shots that are very similar and delete the ones that are the lesser of the two.

That's as far as I usually get and I still have a lot of shots yet. I'm not sure how to widdle it down any further. And I'd love to make the process faster. Any tips? What things should I be looking for in a shot to set it apart from a similar one? How do I get down to a managable number?

Thanks for any advice.

[d2creative]

No set number unless I promised the client a certain number. Otherwise I just process what I like and think to myself, "Would i show this to a client as an example of my best work? Would I put this in my portfolio?"
Just because it came out decent, doesn't mean it's worth going to final with.

[Songman45]

I take it we're talking about portraits:
One thing digital has done is give up the opportunity to way over shoot. This is not critical, just factual food for though. Had you paid for rolls of 120 or 220 film and processing and maybe batch proofing or if you had even done the processing youself paying for the chemistry and spending the time. How many exposures would you have made? I'm guessing far fewer than 150 and you'd probably be showing maybe 36-48.

I have this personal idea that somehow with all this inexpensive creation ability we've cheapened the entire business. Its just too easy and too inexpensive to make the original image. I suppose processing and re-touching being replaced with computer manipulation reduces the costs of getting the final work out. Consumers are geared to seeing high volumes of things as inexpensive things. For example, where do you find cheaper prices, the warehouse store or the boutique? So when you lay out 75-100 pictures for a person to look at, how valuable (out of all the emotion available for this project) can any one of them be?

A portrait session is not a "lets play dress up" session. A customer should have an idea of what it is they are wanting. A senior session is probably the exception to extensive wardrobe changes and then it should be limited (cap and gown, formal drape or suit, casual, and sport). A gneral portrait session should have some kind of direction. What is the purpose? "Are we looking for a single wall portrait and perhaps some gift prints today, or do we want an album grouping or a composite piece?" It would be fruitless to have the customer bring in their entire closet if they only are going to be in the market for one single print.

There is the coinfidence factor. Both the photographer and the client need to have some confidence. The customer, regarding outfit, hair style and make-up - basically the things about themself that are going to be portrayed. The photogrpaher, regarding posing, compositon, lighting and expression creation - his skill. Neither the client or the photographer should enter the camera room then shotgun for "a good one".

Finally the sales: The sale is where the profit or loss will finally be realized. The only dollars realized will be exchanged at the sale. If everything has been done to this point calculated to maximize the profit it will go well. Be it a $800 wall portrait or a $450 album only part of the expense has been made. The photographer is going to spend time in a consultation this time should be well spent. It is time that is valuable and cannot be spent doing anything else. You don't want sales presentations encroaching on time something else ought to be attended to. Sorting out confusion takes time weeding through the pictures the customer does not want costs a little. The more out-takes the customer makes the greater the loss. Tossing the proof is also tossing the time spent making the image, the effort and time in processing it as well as the time spent scrutinizing it. Too many choices is a dis-service to the customer. Many times the images are going to please the customer and they will not want to say "no" to many of them. Unfortunately, they may not be able to afford the outlay. The photogrpaher will be blamed (even in jest) for making the decision so hard and might be accused of a tactic of sales pressure.

The photographer should know in the initial consult what offering, what effort, what amount of time is going to best suit the particular want and ability of his customer. Two or three views from either side of the camera in each - head & shoulders, arm prop, three-quarters (standing and seated) and perhaps full-lenght is about a dozen poses over three out fit changes is 36. Thrity-six individuall crafted fine portrait examples should be enough of one person in one setting to exceed any need.

[Jacco]

Originally Posted by waple

I had a shoot yesterday of a brother and sister where I took shots of them together and separately on different backgrounds. I took about 150 shots total and I've narrowed it down to 55 now. But I know I should still drop that number down some.

I guess my first question would be, how many final images do you prefer to have?

Whatever the deal with the client says. It's one of the subjects that ought to be covered in the preparatory discussion. A verbal agreement is also a legal deal!

I'd assume it's contingent upon the number of wardrobes/looks/settings, etc.

Upon that too of course.

Do you have any guides like "for each look/setting I'll have no more than 6 shots" or "I won't have more than 24 finals no matter how long the session was or how often things changed"?

I have suggestions for the client. They vary from gig to gig. Depending on the goal(s). Depending on the use the client intends to make of the photos. And depending on the client/model(s) of course! How easy are they going to be to work with? How photogenic? How compliant? How relaxed? Which also translates in 'how fast'? And time is money.

What I do is:

1. Import everything into Lightroom is go through and mark all the obvious rejects (flash didn't fire, way out of focus, model with a 'not ready' look, etc).

2. Go through again and rank everything from 3-5 stars (I should probably do 2-4 though).

3. I then look at all the 3's only and rerank to 2 or 4 if need be. And then I'll delete all the 2s.

4. After that I do closer side-by-side comparisons between two shots that are very similar and delete the ones that are the lesser of the two.

That's as far as I usually get and I still have a lot of shots yet. I'm not sure how to widdle it down any further. And I'd love to make the process faster. Any tips? What things should I be looking for in a shot to set it apart from a similar one? How do I get down to a managable number?

Thanks for any advice.

Be much more critical in the first round.

[jfrancho]

I'd love to make the process faster. Any tips?

Shoot less.

[Eero Makela]

With digital it is so easy to take way too many shots. I use to think quantity vs quality , in other words take as many as possible and there will be enough shots that have the quality you are looking for.

Now I am starting to be more about quality instead of quantity. Also with Quality I am also trying to reduce the processing/edit time to close to Zero. So that what you composed in the camera is ready without any post work at all. Frame it correctly in the camera so no cropping required. The only cropping I currently do with the best shots is to make them exactly 4x6 as my D300 is not exactly 4x6 (same with my D50 at 3008 x 2000 I always had those extra 8 pixels to remove, I have not done the math on how many pixels extra the D300 has)

With studio work as it is new to me I have been taking way too many shots ie 270 with 3 models and 2 wardrope changes each for 2 of the models and 3 one with only 1. Also had some fun group shots added in at the end.

Next time I will reduce this even more and improve the quality of each shot instead of just snapping too many.

[nyschulte]

I dare to ask the question the other way around:
How can you change anything to your setup (lighting, props, outfit) if you don't know if you got your keeper, your WOWW picture??

From this reflection all choices are automatic, aren't they?

Nicolas

[Brooks]

Originally Posted by nyschulte

I dare to ask the question the other way around:
How can you change anything to your setup (lighting, props, outfit) if you don't know if you got your keeper, your WOWW picture??

By shooting tethered to a computer which allows you to critically examine each shot on a large computer monitor before you change lighting, props or outfits.

[waple]

Thanks for the advice.

To answer a couple questions:

I am shooting a lot less than I was before. When I first got my studio lights and had a gig for a client, I shot about 450 with nothing changing but background (different part of the store she owns) and lightsetup. With this last shoot, I was impressed that I got it down to 150 with two people to shoot. Actually, I think it was probably closer to about 120.

One reason why I'm still taking a fair amount is because I'm actually trying more with my lights. I used to set up for a rembrant setup, for the most part, and leave them there. But now I'm trying side-lighting, moving them very close, high contrast, dim/bright background, etc. I'm sure that when I get more used to what's going on, I'll shoot even less. And unfortunately, one of my modeling lights burned out so I was having to take more experimental shots to see what was going on.


But anyway, the jist of the thread is about how to narrow down those last images. Okay, taking out the high number of shots, let's say you have one photo that will be the cover of a magazine and you have 10 photos that you really like. What kind of things would you look for that put that one special image over the top?

[nyschulte]

Brooks, yes on the technical side i agree (allthough i never was happy with the transfer speed on my D200/D300 shooting raw, being thethered USB or wireless)

My point was more on the general workflow, i.e. In the studio i check the result on the computer before any change.

But, i digressed from the original question...
Bear in mind, this is not my money making occupation, it is my favorite hobby/passion/obsession. So when i use the term model, it can be a model or a person who was never in front of a camera.

For an 3 hours shooting i try to go for a dozen or so keepers. Sometimes i take 50 pictures, sometimes 200, depending on the setup, model, ...

In between i check the result in LightRoom, and immediately delete those with technical problems. With the model we decide then if we move on to the next setup, reshoot or simply drop the current setup.

If time permits, and i have the shoots i was looking for, i experiment with some new setup. I do not count these for the regular session, as here indeed there can be more pictures taken.

When selecting, i mark the interesting pictures with one star, if i find a WOW i give 5 stars.

if the number is by far greater then approx. 20, i re-iterate throug the 1 stars,
further narrowing the selection, marking them with 2 stars. etc.

At the end i can present the model the retained ones, and she can make her selection.

Nicolas

[waple]

Originally Posted by nyschulte

....
In between i check the result in LightRoom, and immediately delete those with technical problems. With the model we decide then if we move on to the next setup, reshoot or simply drop the current setup.
....

I guess this is another quandry I'm having. I feel, and I could be wrong, that any time not shooting is time that the model may see as wasted. When a photographer takes his time to really set up the perfect shot, as mentioned in an earlier reply, where everything is perfect so you only need to really take one or two shots, it seems as though the model just has to basically stand there waiting. Do they get bored or see it as time that you should be taking pictures? I'm guessing the more experienced models may realize it takes time and patience to get the great shots. But I'm assuming that there are also a LOT more models that don't understand that, and in many cases with me, I've sort of felt rushed.

In my last two sessions though, I have really tried to slow myself down to do as much to get the shot right the first time.

[Songman45]

Originally Posted by waple

I guess this is another quandry I'm having. I feel, and I could be wrong, that any time not shooting is time that the model may see as wasted. When a photographer takes his time to really set up the perfect shot, as mentioned in an earlier reply, where everything is perfect so you only need to really take one or two shots, it seems as though the model just has to basically stand there waiting. Do they get bored or see it as time that you should be taking pictures? I'm guessing the more experienced models may realize it takes time and patience to get the great shots. But I'm assuming that there are also a LOT more models that don't understand that, and in many cases with me, I've sort of felt rushed.

In my last two sessions though, I have really tried to slow myself down to do as much to get the shot right the first time.

I suppose it all depends on if the model is working for you or you for them. If this is a paid model who the heck cares how you spend the time. If you are hired by the model then perhaps its different. If you can set-up for one percect shot in advance, can you set up for 10? If you are going to make major light and scenery changes can you blueprint the setup and expidite the change by charting the setup?

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by waple

I guess this is another quandry I'm having. I feel, and I could be wrong, that any time not shooting is time that the model may see as wasted. When a photographer takes his time to really set up the perfect shot, as mentioned in an earlier reply, where everything is perfect so you only need to really take one or two shots, it seems as though the model just has to basically stand there waiting. Do they get bored or see it as time that you should be taking pictures? I'm guessing the more experienced models may realize it takes time and patience to get the great shots. But I'm assuming that there are also a LOT more models that don't understand that, and in many cases with me, I've sort of felt rushed.

In my last two sessions though, I have really tried to slow myself down to do as much to get the shot right the first time.

Who's running the shoot? You or the model? Seriously.

I've had models that can run a shoot. And I've shot models who DO run the shoot. But, for the most part, I run the shoot. I tell the model up front: you're going to hold uncomfortable poses, even while I adjust lights or reflectors, and it's going to hurt. If it's going to take a moment, I'll tell them to relax, though.

I've also told them that I'll be studying them...for a long time...and how the light hits them. I shoot nudes primarily. This is up front, here's what I do, why I do it, and what my goal is. I may take 10 minutes to set up a shot. I may get everything set up, take a shot, realize it's not going to work, and start over. That's just how this goes.

If a set up is going to take a while, I'll usually know about it and tell them to take a break. Just be within shouting distance.

Quality over quantity.

You're either in charge or you're not. Confidence is everything here.

[waple]

Makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

I have had a lot of compliments from the people I have been shooting, about the quality of thier shots, and how I handle and interact with them, so I guess I do need to be more confident in running the show.