Selling Portraits or Scared by all the cheap prices

[JimH]

Don't have to much to add .. just thought I would pass on two links that might help put things into perspective if anyone has further doubts about low priced products:

1. NPPA Cost of Doing Business Calculator

2. 10 Reasons Professional Photographers Charge What They Do

Also (and I haven't used these in awhile) two sentences that further the discussion:

"It takes no skills to be the cheapest"

"Accepting payment for providing a service does not make one a professional."

[Brooks]

For many people the only personal experience they have with a "professional" photographer is with the wedding photographer who shot their own or a friend's wedding, or a portrait photographer who did their senior portrait.

So when they think they'd like to be a professional photographer they tend to choose one of those "retail" photographic specialties because that's been their experience with professional photography. And, if they already have a day job, it's convenient to be able to keep that job and dabble on the weekends and after hours in professional photography.

The problem with pursuing the "retail" professional photography business is that it does require a lot of weekend work and you're forced to compete with other beginners doing the exact same thing. So prices are low, competition is high even at the low end of the market and, as Benji said, many people burn out and leave the business. And then there are the people selling prints for pennies.

And you're almost always selling retail to individuals with little to no experience in buying photography. Initially the inexperience on the part of your customers might seem to be an advantage because it allows you to get some jobs before you're really qualified to do the work.

In the long run it can be a huge disadvantage because the inexperienced retail customer often places little value on something they think they can easily produce themselves. After all they have an expensive camera that takes great pictures ! How hard could it be?

If you're in or near a reasonably sized city there's an entire market, several markets, of professional photography where rates are much higher, the work can be very challenging AND creative and the buyers are just as professional as the photographers and you never have to sell any sizes of photo prints. No albums, no prints, no matting or framing etc. etc....

In the world of business to business commercial photography you can specialize or generalize in many disciplines of photography such as: industrial, advertising, architectural, product, catalog, food, corporate, life-style, public relations, business portrait etc. You can find clients in advertising agencies, PR firms, restaurants, manufacturers, architects, law firms, builders, real estate developers, commercial printers...all of these businesses buy professional photography and they can easily be a source of repeat business, month after month.

Look around at your own market in your area and see if there aren't other choices available where you can pursure a professional photography career. You might find a niche that you enjoy and can really excel in without competing with the people selling color prints at a discount.

[DustinFinn]

I see a lot of strong points in this thread (I was pointed to it by a friend - registered to chime in).

So the biggest problem I see is the education of the newcomer and the lack of help from Full Time Photographers to the weekend warriors that are also out there.

I had approached a lot of photographers in my area to see if anyone needed assistants or help and was turned down by most - not because my new portfolio didn't have promise, but because they were worried about training their competition...

I joined clubs, took more classes, took more seminars so that I can "run into" more photographers to get better information...

There isn't any "resource" out there to help the newbies and its difficult to help them(us) understand how things are done.

Even when you do a "trade for print" you've essentially removed a paid photog from a gig that he/she could have earned on...

I like this thread, and I lurk around a lot of forums, this is the first to actually have someone say "If you need help, let me know" rather than the common stance of "Stop charging too little, stop doing things for free".

Is digital changing the world, yes, yes it is. Look at www . Strobist . com and www . JoeMcNally . com which are all working on different lighting techniques to help differentiate themselves from the newbie, weekend warrior or other misc photographers...

The PPA really needs to jump in and help newcomers, especially those that buy pro-gear and jump into being a photographer.

It's difficult to be a newcomer, newbie, green photographer and break into a field without undercutting others so that you can generate some business for yourself... Everyone assumes "free images" will get them something, but no explains what it does to the Full Time Photographer.

Great Post and I will be linking to this for others to check it out.

[KellyL]

edit

[JimH]

Originally Posted by DustinFinn

The PPA really needs to jump in and help newcomers

Are you a professional or aspiring member?

Use the "Find a Photographer" part of the PPA website for your area and call a few. I bet you will get a tremendously different response (especially if you can state you are an aspiring member at a minimum).

All PPA members agreed to the code of ethics below(#4 in specific)

PPA Code of Ethics
I, as a requirement for admission to and retention of membership and participation in Professional Photographers of America, Inc., agree
to strive at all times to upgrade and improve my knowledge and skill of professional photography, marketing and related areas. In all my
dealings with users of photography and the general public, I will: Strive to present all photographic services in surroundings and in a
manner which reflects the highest levels of professionalism. 2. Use the highest levels of honesty, professionalism and integrity. 3. Not
use any marketing or competitive practice which violates any Federal Trade Commission, or other Federal or State regulatory agency
rule or regulation, or Federal or State statute or any decision of any Federal or State Court; and 4. In all dealing with fellow professional
photographers, students and others who aspire to be professional photographers, I shall share the knowledge and skill of professional
photography. 5. Support efforts for and assist in the education of all interested persons the general public in the art and science of
professional photography.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by DustinFinn

There isn't any "resource" out there to help the newbies and its difficult to help them(us) understand how things are done.

This forum has been here for years. And several professional associations actually run seminars for this type of stuff, both from a business and creativity standpoint.

Even when you do a "trade for print" you've essentially removed a paid photog from a gig that he/she could have earned on...

Wanna bet? How many TFP/TFCD models actually have the $$ to pay for a pro portfolio? Not many. If they have the money, they don't do TFP. If they don't have the money, they never WERE a pro photographer's customer.

[k9ofkaos]

I have a different perspective. Let me start out by saying I respect professional photographers who do exceptional work. There are also some hacks who I wouldn't pay one red cent to do any work for me.

I am an amateur photographer that is somewhat different than a lot of other amateurs. I don't pretend to be a professional. I don't aspire to be one. When I do shoots for friends I charge them very little. Sometimes I just do it for free. I do it because they are my friends and I can do something for them. I call that having a servant's heart. I won't shoot for Joe Q Public. I don't want the stress. I also don't have the time. My family comes first and I don't want to leave them at home while I'm shooting all the time. I have turned down numerous opportunities to shoot weddings for friends. I have told them without exception that they need to hire a professional photographer that knows what they are doing. They badger me and say they don't mind. I stand my ground and they either find another amateur or they hire a pro.

My intent is not to undercut the local professional. I can do okay work, but not professional quality yet. I am upfront with any friend I agree to shoot about that fact. So far everyone has been pleased. And that is all the compensation I really want. What I really like doing is taking pictures of beautiful women that shows off their beauty without them taking off half or all their clothes.

I believe professionals deserve to be compensated for the work they can deliver. I say charge what the market will bear. If you are a skilled craftsman charge an arm and a leg. In a customer's mind, there is much more perceived value in an expensive product than in a cheap one. Why do people want to drive expensive cars. Because not everyone can afford to drive one.

[PetersenPhotography]

Originally Posted by Not4wood

But the most important is to not be afraid to charge what you think is what your skill level is worth. Your charging for the skill in your hands and your education that made your skill into what it is today. Look around at any type of construction worker, that charges for there time and skill. Do they charge and make more money then we are supposed to?? I would say its about the same, the skill is different yes, but our services and skill level should be charged on what we know and how we do it.

I agree here. I am not a professional photographer, although I like to dream that I could become one some day. I've seen my father build his own countertop manufacturing business from the ground up, so I have some of his business acumen from watching him work hard to get where he is today. Would I myself charge a whole lot? Probably not, and I do need to adjust my prices for that reality. I came into this with lots of grandiose ideas, but I've learned that I need to adjust, so don't go getting all bent out of shape if you see me charging more than I'm worth - consider that I live in the the DC area market. As I get better at what I do and get more clients, I will charge more. Someone mentioned the 33% rule - I agree with that. There will always be people to buy your photos at your price level - AS LONG AS YOUR SKILLS MATCH YOUR PRICE.

The Wal*Mart plan is to buy in bulk, sell low and sell lots. It works for them, but people still go to Pottery Barn for high quality merchandise because of the stigma attached to Wal*Mart. So too with photographers. If you sell at low prices, then you'll get lots of cheap business and lots of small profits from people who don't give a darn about high quality photography. They want cheap product and it's up to the beginning photographer to give high-quality product to show off, even if it's made for dirt cheap. Good to build a portfolio, but not a one-person business. As skills increase, so too do charges. Fewer clients? Perhaps, but Pottery Barn moves less product for more profit and they are still in business.

Don't be afraid of us up-and-comers who charge less than you Pros. We won't drive you out of business any more than you could have driven the pros out of business when you first started yourself because we're competing for different niches in the market.

[DustinFinn]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

Wanna bet? How many TFP/TFCD models actually have the $$ to pay for a pro portfolio? Not many. If they have the money, they don't do TFP. If they don't have the money, they never WERE a pro photographer's customer.

Yes, there are exceptions to the comment I made...But sometimes I hear people say they "cannot afford it" and not everyone just cannot "afford it".

[DustinFinn]

Originally Posted by jhilgedick

Are you a professional or aspiring member?

Aspiring to become an aspiring member...

I have since been working with photographers, who have now become friends...

My comments were based on years ago when I was looking for information - it was not clear what to do, where to go, how to get there...

I just think it needs to be a little more spelled out on where to get help... but help will only help those who think they need it... Some are just going to do whatever they want.

It's tough... everyday I try to be more of the solution than the problem.

[JimH]

Originally Posted by DustinFinn

Aspiring to become an aspiring member...

I see on your website you do wedding photography. The Malpractice Trust alone may be worth the price of membership.

Originally Posted by DustinFinn

My comments were based on years ago when I was looking for information - it was not clear what to do, where to go, how to get there...

I just think it needs to be a little more spelled out on where to get help... but help will only help those who think they need it... Some are just going to do whatever they want.

The Camel in and of itself is proof positive of how much easier it is for photographers to get that kind of information. Heck the internet as we know it wasn't even around in the mid 80's when i first contemplated, then subsequently abandoned, thoughts of a career in professional photography for similar reasons.

Which brings us back full circle to the OT. Discussions such as these bring to the forefront the need for the "newly entered onto the scene" photographer to take advantage of the information provided and act upon it. Day in an day out we see solid, practical advice from those that have been professionals in this field offer advice and critique that simply gets dismissed ... then repeated. It' a wonder they don't throw up their arms and say to heck with it.

[Inked Photography]

k9ofkaos - I love his point to f view. Me, I personally don't publicize my pricing. Every shoot I do is different. It has a different purpose and a different meaning. For example. I have a friend who was out of work for nearly a year. Not because he wanted to. But he wanted to give his wife something special for mothers day. I posted the pics here. But I knew he didn't have a lot of money and he told me up front. I am going to pay you. What is the cost? Well I low balled him and he knew it. But I did that cause he is a friend, I knew his situation and I did that favor.
Another example: A photographer friend of mine asked me to help him shoot a wedding that he was doing for free. The couple was physically/mentally challenged and barely had money for the wedding. Let alone a photography. I wanted to help so bad and give them something they deserved. I never posted any pics, never said anything about it till now. The point I am making for me is that different lifestyles require different services. If I can be of help to someone that can't afford it I will do. Yet at the same time if I am gonna shoot a posh wedding their gonna pay for my services. So free 8x10, $10.00 for an 8x10, so what, $25.00 better, either way, as long as I am happy with what I got and I feel good about it. Fine. Is Oklahoma low? Probably, would I charge more if I was back in California? Yes. Again, demographics, demographics, demographics.