Selling Portraits or Scared by all the cheap prices

[Songman45]

Its a good thread because it allows pro and non alike to gain information about the impact pricing has on the percieved value of photography overall. I hope everyone comes away with mutual respect. Remember that if you are a pro shooter and you are making your living with that camera everyone else with a camera at your venue is a threat. If you are a non pro at an event being covered by a pro, you understand why you are considered a threat.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Songman45

Remember that if you are a pro shooter and you are making your living with that camera everyone else with a camera at your venue is a threat. If you are a non pro at an event being covered by a pro, you understand why you are considered a threat.

So all of you hobbyists just out enjoying the day, remember: you're the bad guy!

What an elitist attitude...

[Songman45]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

So all of you hobbyists just out enjoying the day, remember: you're the bad guy!

What an elitist attitude...

I thought I stated my opinion quite well without need of the jab of extra ellaboration or interpretation. Should anyone lack the comprehension to grasp what I said they can ask me what I mean. I don't require assistance in stating my opinion, thank you though.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Songman45

I thought I stated my opinion quite well without need of the jab of extra ellaboration or interpretation. Should anyone lack the comprehension to grasp what I said they can ask me what I mean. I don't require assistance in stating my opinion, thank you though.

You've stated it well enough.

You're the pro so you're the only one allowed to shoot. I get it. I don't think any further explanation is necessary.

Good luck with that attitude. It seems to be working well for you so far, doesn't it?

[ToJohn]

How many people here download / copy CD's to get their music... FOR FREE!!!!
How many people paid full price ( if any at all ) for all the software on their machine's..

MicroStock houses, are banking 10's of millions every year.. selling RF Images for peanuts...

The industry has changed.. we need to change with it.. or get out...


John
toronto

[RodeoHammer]

I know I dont steal my music my or my software. An everyone in my house pay for it also. I am not a thief.

[camrajoky]

What ever happened to taking pride in your craft. And when it comes to the idea that people are going to steal you work if they can.... There is little we can do to stop them...all we can do is hold our heads up and demonstrate OUR example for them to follow. The Topic here was Selling....If you are not willing to get out and hustle to make a living, then you are in the wrong business. But then, many here are HOBBIST and don't look at this as a business. For those of us that do, We have pride in holding our heads high and setting the example that many of you find hard to stand up to.

[Not4wood]

Been a while since I've been in here to read whats been going on.

Camrajoky, thats what this is really about, Professionalism. You hit it right on the head.

The latest incident for me, while as a tourist. We were supposed to go and get a group shot by the Hired by the Tour Company Pro. While guiding and posing all of us for the shot. All of a sudden, he asks us who wants a shot with their camera just place it on the floor in front of him. After he had taken his shot, one by one he would pick up all of our cameras and then take a shot with it.

Not threatened by anyone, his skill actually worked the camera and took pride in helping others. This is how I was trained by my mentor way back in the mid to late 70's. While working Weddings, people came to us if they had a problem with there own camera. Sometimes asked us to use there cameras to take a shot or two. We took pride in helping others, people remembered us for not only being Polite but giving a hand when needed. The most important part of this small story is when they needed a Pro for there own gathering who did they think of? Us of course.

Your the Pro, someone with a camera in the same situation is not a threat. They look up to you for your skill and training to take better quality images, better poses and better expressions. They do know the limits and remember "The Tool doesn't make the artist, the artist creates with that tool". Yeah, you can twist this anyway you want but it still comes out the same. If you give me a paint brush, or a chisel or even the same tools that anyone of the Great Masters used way back when. Am I going to come up with a creation that even compares to them? I dont think so, so why sweat the little things?

[Not4wood]

But, on the same note.

As an Apprentice Carpenter I would work with you for a couple of days and then the next guy for several days and so on. This way I would learn everyones skill and attitude, the fastest way or the safest way and I would judge and use what I gathered to be the best way. There was always someone who wouldn't want either to do something different or even work within 5 feet of me because they took my presence as a threat and felt that if I learned what they were doing I would replace them.

Farthest thing from the truth, just pure Ego. I even worked with several Real Masters of the Trade and they were the most willing to help anybody with anything and was always the first to offer any assistance to anybody who needed it no matter what the skill level. Not just us apprentices.

Who looked more Professional, the one who offered to help or the Pro who ignored others and walked away? This will always be a rough and sour discussion actually for any Skill, Trade or Craft.

[Mechoption]

Originally Posted by Songman45

I hope everyone comes away with mutual respect. Remember that if you are a pro shooter and you are making your living with that camera everyone else with a camera at your venue is a threat. If you are a non pro at an event being covered by a pro, you understand why you are considered a threat.

Isn't "mutual respect" and "threat" an oxymoron in the same paragraph ? I think I see your actual point, but this paragraph does come across as rather confrontational to me.

Eitherway, I've seen this attitude in action and it was pretty dissapointing. I was at car race with a friend and when we tried chatting with a "Pro" who was covering the event he gave us the cold shoulder and was actually quite rude - this was between races when he wasn't busy shooting. Now unfortunately the actions of this one "Pro" has turned me off approaching others.

[Ellbee99]

Ok this isn't about pricing but, I wanted to mention something that pertains to what was said by others above. I am a pro photographer...I shoot weddings as well as several others types of photography. At weddings I ask if anyone wants me to take a shot with their cameras too. I get OUT of guests way so they can take there shots...I only ask if they will let me take mine first. I am constantly told how nice I am and how they are positive the portraits will be awesome even before they see a shot! Why...? Because I am professional, courteous and friendly. A little kindness goes a long way.

Just a thought.

PS I think we "pros" should remember at one point we were all amateurs too. Treat others as we would like to treated ourselves.

[Not4wood]

Lori,

Only one thing to say, "Excellent Statement". I actually like hearing someone saying this, it has been said I think in this thread as well if you skim up several pages

Mechoption,
As far as being poisoned to approaching other Pro Racers. Don't let the Moody Egocentric one spoil your enjoyment. I would bet money on it, that if you approached lets say 5 other Pros you probably wont hear anybody else being as rude.
Most Racers enjoy the Fans and know that its our money that keeps them going. There are Bad Apples in every Barrel, dont let this one spoil the whole Farm for you...

[ToJohn]

Originally Posted by Not4wood

As far as being poisoned to approaching other Pro Racers. Don't let the Moody Egocentric one spoil your enjoyment. I would bet money on it, that if you approached lets say 5 other Pros you probably wont hear anybody else being as rude.

Actually... I worked the INDY here in Toronto, and that type of behavior, is more the rule, and not the exception.

If this person was with a "daily", then one needs to understand the " Rank n File " of it all. More senior staff,
get placed in better hole$. Also.. if they're touring the circuit... then all their weekends are spent away
from their familiar, friends, cottages etc.

This does not give reason to be rude.. but I hope it injects some consideration for
" what the other person might be going through ".

Lets not put our heads in the sand here folks.. there does exists slime-balls...
in every profession.. and if you've never been the target / victim of a slime-ball...
you may want to use some of this thread to accept what some here have gone through...
and try to understand why they feel and act the way they do.

There are shooters that are great, that are kind, that accommodate all the guests, that have confidence, yadda yadda...
and " they're still slime-balls ".... when it comes to the way they respect ( read: lack of ) other photographers.

john
toronto