Will digital B&W Prints ever be like Film B&W prints?

[photosbymorgan2]

When you take a picture with your digital camera and convert it to B&W and have it printed by a lab, it is being printed on color paper therefore it is not like a true B&W print. I know that the average person will see the print and say what a lovely B&W print it is but if you were to compare it to a B&W print done by a film camera and printed on true B&W paper, you would notice that the Digital one has a color tint to it.

With digital taking over the photography industry, I am curious how long it will be before companies start creating machines that will print B&W photos on true B&W paper.

[Alice Morrison]

Good question. I'll tell you: ever since I started getting serious work printed by mpix.com, my black and white has looked like black and white should. I really don't try to print b&w at home any more.

[photosbymorgan2]

Originally Posted by Alice Morrison

Good question. I'll tell you: ever since I started getting serious work printed by mpix.com, my black and white has looked like black and white should. I really don't try to print b&w at home any more.

Have you compared your digital black and whites to old film black and whites?

I did and noticed that the digital ones have a tint. I would not have noticed it if I had not done the comparison. The lab says it is caused because the prints are printed on color paper and the RGB are trying to indicate a black and white but are not as accurate.

[Alice Morrison]

Originally Posted by photosbymorgan2

Have you compared your digital black and whites to old film black and whites?

I did and noticed that the digital ones have a tint. I would not have noticed it if I had not done the comparison. The lab says it is caused because the prints are printed on color paper and the RGB are trying to indicate a black and white but are not as accurate.

Yes. My B&Ws from home ink jet printers (even expensive ones, epson 2200, canon i9900) always have something weird about them, even using EyeOne profiled printers and monitors. From mpix, the tint is gone. I'm left thinking it's the printing process.

[mikaelwardhana]

I always trust a professional lab here for my works. They use giant lambda printers capable to print pictures with a size of 50"x50". And they have a service called " True BW " ...which is a real BW. printed in BW paper. and i cannot see any tint on it.

I believe there's only one printing lab like this in here in Melbourne and this only one is very professional unlike normal lab.

[metalstorm]

Originally Posted by photosbymorgan2

When you take a picture with your digital camera and convert it to B&W and have it printed by a lab, it is being printed on color paper therefore it is not like a true B&W print.

Mpix does true BW prints. They also do some metallic papers.
Edited to add: My black and white prints to color paper always seem to have a very slight purple tint to them when compared to true BW paper.

[photosbymorgan2]

Originally Posted by metalstorm

Mpix does true BW prints.* They also do some metallic papers.

Is their true B&W prints done thru the chemical process or on laser or ink jet printers?

[metalstorm]

They claim it is "Kodak digital black and white paper specifically designed for making continous-tone black and white prints directly from digital images." They have sizes up to 20"x30". Check their site out at www.mpix.com. They say you can get a sample. I've ordered a batch of b&w from them and they really are b&w.

[photosbymorgan2]

Originally Posted by metalstorm

They claim it is "Kodak digital black and white paper specifically designed for making continous-tone black and white prints directly from digital images."* They have sizes up to 20"x30".* Check their site out at www.mpix.com.* They say you can get a sample.* I've ordered a batch of b&w from them and they really are b&w.

I did look at their site and read about the black and white and they do say it is silver based but do not specifically say whether it goes thru the E4 process. I will email them and see what they say.

[metalstorm]

Originally Posted by photosbymorgan2

I did look at their site and read about the black and white and they do say it is silver based but do not specifically say whether it goes thru the E4 process. I will email them and see what they say.

Please let us know what you find out.

[jwind]

Originally Posted by photosbymorgan2

I know that the average person will see the print and say what a lovely B&W print it is but if you were to compare it to a B&W print done by a film camera and printed on true B&W paper, you would notice that the Digital one has a color tint to it.

Freaking tell me about it... Like most every person in the 'image' field I'd consider myself hypercritical of image quality. We have a Epson 9600 at work (ya the big one) and for the life of me I CAN NOT get a B&W print that I like. Inkjet printers have their place but I'm not sure BW is that.

[photosbymorgan2]

Originally Posted by metalstorm

Please let us know what you find out.

They use a Kodak Professional Durst Theta digital laser printer which was specifically designed to print on black & white paper. They use Kodak Polymax D surface paper and process it in Polymax chemistry.

[alba63]

Hello,
it is true, BW prints on color paper can look neutral, but they still dont have that classic BW look. I have a Epson 2100 with archival hextone grey inks from MIS. I manage to get really good and neutral BW prints, but it took some time to get there. They may not look exactly like a darkroom print, they ARE a different thing, bu they look very good in my opinion, the results I get form print services are inferior specially in shadow detail where my own prints are much better.

regards, bernie

[Kevin Barrett]

Originally Posted by photosbymorgan2

When you take a picture with your digital camera and convert it to B&W and have it printed by a lab, it is being printed on color paper therefore it is not like a true B&W print. I know that the average person will see the print and say what a lovely B&W print it is but if you were to compare it to a B&W print done by a film camera and printed on true B&W paper, you would notice that the Digital one has a color tint to it.

With digital taking over the photography industry, I am curious how long it will be before companies start creating machines that will print B&W photos on true B&W paper.

I think we're only a few years out to having excellent B&W results at home. I would consider today's equipment (for DIY) to be close. Epson seems to be working towards
that goal with their new 2400 printer. "Mesmerism" is virtually gone with that model. If you're out-sourcing your prints, I think we're pretty dog-gone close to the goal
with what some of the top labs are able to produce today.

[hartcons]

I've been experimenting with Lyson inks in my Epson 1280 (which I never liked much for color printing anyway). First you run a set of two cleaning cartridges then put in the two Lyson cartridges (quad black, which is what I'm using, or small gamut). With my order they sent me a sample of some special Lyson paper but it was so thick it barely went through and it got ink all over the rollers.

http://www.lyson.com/quad-black-tone.html

[JDArt]

Originally Posted by photosbymorgan2

When you take a picture with your digital camera and convert it to B&W and have it printed by a lab, it is being printed on color paper therefore it is not like a true B&W print. I know that the average person will see the print and say what a lovely B&W print it is but if you were to compare it to a B&W print done by a film camera and printed on true B&W paper, you would notice that the Digital one has a color tint to it.

With digital taking over the photography industry, I am curious how long it will be before companies start creating machines that will print B&W photos on true B&W paper.

I'm resurrecting this thread because I recently had the opportunity to try out the Epson r2400 printer. This is Epson's new large-body printer that replaces the Epson 2200 printer. The r2400 is touted as being able to print the best black-and-white photographs that the inkjet world has yet seen. I tried a few examples, and I have to say that the output is impressive. I'm not sure it's any more impressive than the black-and-white prints I have gotten from mpix.com, but for do-it-yourselfers at home, the r2400 may make black-and-white printing from digital sources worth another look.

[Paul Shields]

How does it compare to the HP 7960 (and it's relatives)? This was supposed to produce very good B&W when using the 'grey' cartridge, and from my experience it did work very well with no discernable bronzing. It's been a while, but I did a run of printing some A4's of images I'd taken with Ilford HP5 on an OM4ti - and the 'clients' (in this case, my parenting group) were ecstatic with the results, as was I. But one thing I know about printers is that there is always something better round the corner. I shall have to check out the Epson that you mention.

[badpickev]

yes and here is why.

I know Fuji S series cameras have a B&W mode, thus you do not convert to bw, it starts there. I believe all cameras will either do this or have it. Kodak is making, said they will make B&W printer paper. The new generation printers are starting to devote time to just B&W.

So if its not all here yet, it will be. No matter how much color, slide or whatever we do, Poeple will always be pulled by the easy tones of B&W.

[Michele]

Aren't they coming out with just B/W printers with all eight gray, black tones and one white? Has anyone experienced this? I know our community college has just gone to digital and ended the film days of B/W darkroom, and they are suppose to be getting all B/W printers with no "colors" to continue the B/W class, but all through a digital darkroom. If that makes sense.
I dont know much more than what I said here in regards to this B/W stuff. Oh, I did get one B/W printed recently from Mpix and was quite please with the result for the most part, but I can say, nothing like what I have seen in a traditional dark room of B/W. Although, that could of been my post processing. Its so different than the darkroom.

Michele