Understanding Exposure

[heartseye]

Sell the light meter.........buy Ativan.......enjoy life! Bob

[KellyL]

Bob, I had to look up Ativan...that it is a prescription for anxiety disorders makes me think I am thinking too much and misrepresenting myself here on the Camel! LOL

[heartseye]

lol.....no, Never misrepresenting, Kelly. Your headspace is one I relate to very well....and......you will always occupy it, as long as new ideas keep being born......cheers, Bob

[JohnC]

Go ahead and sell the meter. Do you follow along with the Strobist blog and lessons? He's said a few times that he hasn't used his flash meter in years. I haven't either, though I did actually use it this past weekend. I went and set up some lights at an event and did a few test images and went home to rest before the event. But then I realized that I did all the tests with the camera set to ISO 400 and wanted to use 100. So went and found my flash meter (luckily the battery was still good) and went back. I took a reading at 400, then dialed the power up on the strobes and took readings at 100 until they matched the 400 reading. But I didn't compare the flash meter reading to the camera settings. I already knew the aperture I was going to use on the camera. I guess I should have compared them to see how accurate the meter was. But didn't think of it then. Too interested in getting on with things and making some photos.

I wonder if I should admit here that I never look at the histogram on the back of my camera, either. All the histogram is going to tell me is that some shadows are blocked up or some highlights are blown out. I can already tell that by looking at the scene. I know I need to tone down the highlights (diffusion screen or gobos) or fill in the shadows (reflectors or flash). Sometimes you just have to let the shadows go. I don't think the histogram is going to help much there. It just confirms things. It doesn't correct them.

As for automatic exposure, I'm almost always in Aperture Priority unless I'm in a studio with flash where I'm in Manual. But I don't always stick with the meter reading. I regularly spin the compensation dial to get what I want. And that reminds me that the only short-coming I have with the Canon 5D is that it only allows for +/- 2 stops compensation. I think my 1D bodies go to 3 or more stops. So sometimes I do have to pop into Manual mode if I really want to deviate from what the meter says.

[KellyL]

I've been reading too many other things to go to far into the strobist. Although, I do like the philosophy and the idea. I could have purchased a really good macro lens for the price I paid for this ligth meter. But I am not giving up on it yet. I know it has its purpose.

The thing that hit me today is this...so I am taking a reading off the bright part of the sky, taking a reading off the shadows, creating an average exposure....BUT WAIT...that's what my CAMERA is doing. So why teach a child to use long division for five years of schooling when a $10.00 calculator can do it so quickly? Perhaps there are more important things to understand.

I look at this thread, and the number of people that have said, "Woah...." "I need to rethink...."

Jay for example. Have you seen his work? Incredible! Awesome! Fantisimo! (What ever that means.) Chimptastic! Yet now he is questioning his ability.

[KellyL]

This morning at 5:30 I went out to take a picture armed with all my new knowledge and confidence. I was a little frustrated because it seemed as if I didn't really know what I was doing. Well, not really. I went about it fairly straight forward. I was thrown a little by the lighting. The sky had no color. There was fog in the air. But I looked around, determined to find something to shoot.

I took a reading on the non descript sky and one on the foilage, averaged the two and bracketed. I liked this one the best. It was a very wet morning.

[KellyL]

For this particular exposure, I used my light meter to read the sky and the darker trees. I then averaged the reading. I set the meter for f/11...thinking that would be enough DOF to keep everything in focus. I set the light meter to adjust the shutter speed. I averaged the shutter speeds, the bracketed.

I increased the exposure 1/3 a stop in Lightroom from the brightest bracket. (I only bracketd 2/3 stops in camera and should have gone 1 full stop.)

In photoshop I added a curves layer, overlay, 17% to clarify. Brought the midtones up with a levels layer. Converted to sRGB for final posting.

5:30 this morning. I have really been wanting to take this photograph because I think the sign in this location is rather humorous. So today I went out to practice exposure.

The only thing I wish I would have done is to snap the shot using aperture priority to determine if there would have been a difference in my calculations and the cameras. I then would have also set the camera to evaluative metering.

[KellyL]

I was staring at this picture and thought I would like to see it in a sepia tone. I kind of like this picture.

[JohnC]

Put aside the sepia tone one for the moment. How would you have handled this if you were using slide film and didn't have Photoshop available?

[heartseye]

I would have shot it on Provia,(400 I think to get the longest possible tonal range), underexposed 1/2 stop, and used a graduated grey filter....and hoped for the best...Bob

[KellyL]

Since I haven't shot slide film for over 20 years, and I shot that with my Pentax K1000 I am not sure how to answer that question. On my Pentax, I would have used the in camera meter, used a blue filter, used the in camera meter and shot the frame, for slide film.

Bob's answer "and hoped for the best" says a lot.

Okay...well, here is where I am now. My whole quest into understanding exposure was a mistrust that has developed of the in camera meter. Believing that to get better exposures, I needed to start taking meter readings with a light meter, I found myself in situations where I felt like I no longer was able to make a correct expsosure. The pressure from what I have read and from discussions here on the Camel made me feel that if I did not take full control over the readings and the adjustments then I was not truly being a "pro photographer".

Since beginning this quest, I have now learned some valuable tools.

The sunny f/16 rule. On a sunny day, setting camera at ISO 100, f/16, and the shutter speed at 1/100, the picture should be exposed correctly. If using a different ISO setting under those conditions, the reciprocal of the ISO setting for shutter speed should yield the correct exposure. I need to test this until I feel most comfortable.

The in camera metering system is fairly accurate, and will work for 90% of what is being shot. Using the camera's LCD panel and the histogram, and looking for highlights and shadows that are clipped will allow me to make minor adjustments. If, and only if, I see a good shot and say, "Oh, oh, oh!" I can say that I was chimping the shot.

In some cases, a hand held light meter will aid in finding the correct exposure. Having one available will assist me when I have the time to carefully look at a scene and begin to examine the dynamic range.

Shooting aperature priority on shoot and run events is okay. The camera can be trusted. If I am shooting the bride and groom as they run from a church, time does not allow for camera manipualtion. Having the camera set on aperature priority and chimping a little will allow me to change the EV slightly to get the best possible shot.

Shooting camera RAW will enable me to adjust the exposure, but I should not rely on this factor but still attempt to get the best exposure possible when I miss it in camera.

Being aware of the shooting conditions is exteremely important. IN a backlit situation where the subject is standing with the sun to their back, metering the background and using fill flash to bring the subject into the picture to avoid sillouhettes needs to be practiced ad finium, or what ever the term is that means all the time, because practice makes perfect.

Above all else, evaluating the scene, understanding the light conditions, and realizing that with my head, my camera, and my meter, I should be able to determine how the scene should be exposed.

I do understand the triangle of expsoure, the relationship between ISO, Shutter, and Aperature, and that a variety of combinations will yield correct exposure and also each different one will provide a different creative take on the capture.

Perhaps the single most important thing that I need to do for my photography right now is to be concerned with white balance. In camera white balance is less trustworthy than the meter readings. RAW will allow me to adjust the white balance, but nothing is going to get the tones I really want better than using some device to determine white balance.

Exposing off of a subjects skin will do in a pinch, but I must remember to open the camera up one stop to get a proper exposure of the scene.

A light meter is critical when setting up a flash system like a Metz or Lumedyne that will be used for outdoor portraits. Balancing the light source with the background light will make my exposures and images sing.

If I think of anything else, I will put it here.

[KellyL]

Whoops...I would have used a blue filter on the slide film for indoor shots when using my tungsten photo bulbs. Been too long ago.

[brice]

Originally Posted by KellyL

For this particular exposure, I used my light meter to read the sky and the darker trees.

How can you meter the sky and dark trees with a meter. I thought the meter was put in front of a subject to determine exposure of that subject. How can you meter those two elements (Sky and Trees) at this distance? No sarcasm here, honest question.

[Worm324]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Jay for example. Have you seen his work? Incredible! Awesome! Fantisimo! (What ever that means.) Chimptastic! Yet now he is questioning his ability.

Thanks Kelly apparently I'm a chimper so you might want to take that back

I like the shots you took,especially the 1st of the 2. The composition is very pleasing to the eye. It looks like your metering method worked well. I wonder what it would have looked like if you used f/16, focused on the Fence post and allowed the camera to evaluate the metering. Then bracketed at 2/3 or 1 stop increments. hmmmm

After reading your additions I was thinking about it. Do you ever really see a Pro post a strait up raw image?? I know you do it to try and show what your settings are doing un-edited, but for the most part we usually see an edited version where the exposure always looks perfect.

I think what we are all after is pretty much no PP with perfect exposure. In a perfect world aka (studio) that is probably close to attainable. In any other situation it's probably very tuff if not impossible. I would have to bet that any pro is doing some PP on his/her images before anybody sees them.

The book "Skin" by Lee Varis I just read had some sample shots of what he or his Pro friends got right off the camera. Some were pretty good, but ALL of them needed skin tone adjustments and at the very least minor PP.

I guess what I'm getting at is don't be afraid of PP. If it can be fixed, fix it using your skills and try and take note of what you could have done better based on all your knowledge/ experience. I think the goal of getting it perfect with 1 click is an awesome goal, but not as easy as some lead us to believe?? Clearly you have experience, equipment, Knowledge, and PP skills to produce some killer images. So just keep pluggin away and in theory the PP work will become less and less over time I think thats the approach I'm going with at this point


Jay

[jfrancho]

This is one fine thread. I wish I had something to offer, but I'll remain a spectator for now

[Worm324]

You can offer Kelly some Karma

Jay

[KellyL]

Jay, I think you are speaking to something that is very true. I look at so many images tht seem unbeleivable, that I begin to feel very inadequate. Perhaps one of the best exmaples of what you are talking about is what I saw in Kevin Kubota's book. He shows several before and after shots. I was surprised to learn that even a master like Kubuta will need to clarify his pictures, post process to get them to look the way they do.

Scott Kelby is a great photograher AND a photoshop master. His images, me thinks, are representatives of what one can do when both the camera and photoshop are mastered.

I realize I have been being very hard on myself, but if I don't push myself, who will? I am alone, here in the middle of the corn fields of Central Illinois trying to learn. I know this sounds crazy...but I too want to be a master photographer, or close to it. I know I have a somewhat creative eye, I know I have the same tools being used by others, and I know that all I need to do is work with those tools until they become second nature.

What I do so well is post all my thinking and images to demonstrate what I don't know, what I am learning, and what I am actually doing. I really don't have an ego to bruise when it comes to my images. I would rather get battered now so that I can be better in the future.

By struggling with these issues and working hard to comprehend the logic and the art, I do become better. I will learn things at a deeper level that will pay off in the long run. I do not have any disdain for the struggle, but I embrace it. It is within this frustration that we grapple with what we want to learn and what is being taught becomes more deeply imbedded in our minds. On the other end of the struggle is that "aha" moment when suddenly, the lights go on and the darkness goes away. When the fog is lifted, we actually feel some sort of joy. That joy is the reward of our struggle.

Yes, yes, I know I get way to philosophical about all of this, but then, I am a teacher, after all, and I have seen the aha moment hit students many times. Not only have I felt the aha moment myself, but I have witnessed the joy and exhiliration that my students receive when they finally get it. It is when we have those aha moments that our confidence is built and we actually sense our growth.

I do not get frustrated with the problem solving that goes into all of this desire to understand. A great teacher once said that our trials, sufferings, and frustrations build perseverance within us. As we persevere, our character begins to change and grow. As our character changes and grows, hope fills our spirits. That teacher wrote that nearly two thousand years ago, and although it is a spiritual journey he speaks of, it is the same process we go through anytime we attempt to learn. It is such a universal principal that it is found in most of the major religions of the world.

One of the most enlightening things for me is knowing that the masters of photography relied on not only what they could capture in their camera, but also what they could do in the dark room. Taking the raw material and turning it into a master piece is my goal. Have I created any masterpieces to date? No. I have come close to creating some very nice images that people are very pleased with, but masterpieces? No.

I think I am on my way...but I have a long way to go. The journey is fun. It is great. It is exciting.

Thankfully I have found so many FRIENDS here on the Camel that my life has already been enriched. I know I sound like an idiot, but all of you are with me all the time when I am out shooting. I think about Bob...when I am trying to compose. I think about Jay and his beautiful images. I think about Benji and his control of light. I think about Mark McCall and his skill in getting exposure correct and the right amount of lighting. I think about Kirk and his mantra of white balance, exposure control, creating light when the light is not available. I don't want to get overly sentimental here, or maybe I shouldn't care...I am a very soft hearted, tender person...if you haven't noticed. Maybe that is why my parents gave me a "girls" name. (Just kidding.)

How can I shoot without thinking of Harry, Dana, Stacey, Lee, Pensive, JimmyZ, Felix, Michael, Max, John...where does one stop when listing these names? I am very thankful for the contribution that all have made to my knowledge and confidence to date.

Why am I rambling?

[KellyL]

Brice...didn't mean to ignore your question. I have recently purchased the Sekonic 758 DR, I think is the number. I wanted this meter because it has a scope on it that allows you to pinpoint an area with 1 degree of accuracy. From the camera's view point, I can take a reading off of several different areas, record them, and average the readings.

Last month I walked to my background, took a reading of the dark foilage, returned to my camera, metered for the background, set a Metz flash to bring up the light on a bridal dress and took a shot. I was so happy with the results that I realized I had been missing something by not using a light meter. So I enthusiastically invested in a high range light meter with a scope. My whole discussion in this thread has been based really on how that light meter has thrown me into a whirlwind.

John...thanks for fixing the typo in the header for this thread. It was driving me nuts. Thanks for reading, listening, and doing your job as a moderator. Your depth of knowledge is fantastic and I so appreciate the number of threads where you detail so much information for those of us who walk with red striped canes.

[Brooks]

Why not use a one-degree spotmeter to read the brightest tone in the scene where you'd like detail and then open up 1.5-2 stops for your exposure. Shooting digital capture is like shooting transparency film. In a landscape you meter for the highlights, place that highlight at the tonal value that you want and let the shadows fall where they may.

It's a simple exposure test to see where that threshold of highlight details lives on your film or chip. It might be 1 stop or 1.5 or even 2 stops above Zone V. It's another simple exposure test to see what exposure preserves shadow detail.

I'm not sure why the suggestion to use a 400ISO (film or capture). Surely for these landscapes the slowest ISO would yield the best results of low grain or noise.

Buy a one-degree spotmeter and learn how to use it. You can not only nail your exposure for digital or trans. film, you can also determine the dynamic range of the scene and know what shadow or highlight detail might be lost at any given exposure. And you'll learn so much about the light in the scene you're photographing.

Anything you can do to master more of the craft of photography frees you to be a more creative photographer.

Or just shoot some brackets.............

[KellyL]

Brooks...I was thinking about this as I was driving this morning. Some of the best shots I have taken of my daughter's play was when I spot metered for the brightest spot on stage and shot the scene regardless of the meter said of the overall exposure. I did not adjust based upon that reading. I was thrilled, amazed, extremely happy with the results. This morning I was thinking...why not do the same thing with a landscape? You have given me anoter piece of the puzzle to fit into this continuing maze of thought.