Understanding Exposure

[jfrancho]

Originally Posted by Tom Swaman

.....and for those who prefer a separate light meter??

Tom

Take a class, dude. Buy a book, any book. Go to the library. Join a club. Try it yourself. Get out there. Seriously, you can only get so much from a public forum. You can't really expect that it will all be handed to you in a web forum, do you?

[Tom Swaman]

John,

Your are correct, but many people want references, guides, books, etc. As we both know, many classes use books. I just thought it might help a few folks if anyone could suggest a decent reference text. Frankly, I have been there and gone that and now i just do that so I have not followed the classroom stuff on exposure and I do not know what is out there and good and current. Let us encourage those who wish to learn!

Last weekend, I had the total misfortune of reading a new camera manual. There are not enough four letter words in my total vocabulary to describe the absolute terrible quality of this manual. frankly, reading the manual is enough to make one give up photography.

Tom

[jfrancho]

Must not have been a Canon product !

[kgphoto]

The Fuji S2 Manuals are very poorly put together.

Tom

How did you like my suggestions?

[Tom Swaman]

Wrong John, you forced me to reply. I was referring to the new Canon 870IS Manual. It eats you know what and barks at the moon, IMHO!!!!!

Tom

[jfrancho]

Never had a problem with the five manuals I've used. In fact, I refer to them often. YMMV.

[Tom Swaman]

Neither have I, John, at least with three former manuals. The new one is different and Canon does not include their typical Quick Reference/Start-Up Guide. Even the organization, or lack thereof is terrible and terrible is a euphemism. If you do not believe me, just take a gander for your self on your next trip to your favorite photo store.

Tom

[jfrancho]

I looked at the manual for the SD850 IS (nothing available for the 870 online?) and it was clear and concise and resembled just about all I've seen in the past from them. A lot of the "user experience" stems from their early experiences with a product, and perhaps I am acclimated to the Canon ways and verbiage.

[KellyL]

Harry:

File Name _MG_0856.CR2
Camera Model Canon EOS 30D
Shooting Date/Time 10/5/2007 7:34:02 PM
Shooting Mode Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/30
Av( Aperture Value ) 4.0
Metering Mode Spot Metering
ISO Speed 400
Lens EF-S17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
Focal Length 37.0 mm
Image Size 3504x2336
Image Quality RAW
Flash On
Flash Exposure Compensation 0
Red-eye Reduction On
Shutter curtain sync 1st-curtain sync
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode One-Shot AF
Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 3
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0
Color Space Adobe RGB
Noise Reduction Off
File Size 7686 KB
Custom Function C.Fn:01-0
C.Fn:02-0
C.Fn:03-0
C.Fn:04-0
C.Fn:05-0
C.Fn:06-0
C.Fn:07-0
C.Fn:08-1
C.Fn:09-2
C.Fn:10-0
C.Fn:11-0
C.Fn:12-0
C.Fn:13-0
C.Fn:14-0
C.Fn:15-0
C.Fn:16-0
C.Fn:17-0
C.Fn:18-0
C.Fn:19-0
Drive Mode Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name Kelly Lyle
Camera Body No. 1520905026

[KellyL]

Now I believe I had the Metz set on Manual 1/16 at 400.

[KellyL]

Tom:

I have learned everything I have learned by reading several books, asking questions here on the Camel, reading articles I find on the internet, watching videos by Dennis Reggie, examining sites of photographers I admire, reading articles at Shootsmarter.com, and watching DVD's by Will Crockett. I have purchased and read about 21 different photogarphy books. Much of the information is repetitive, but each book has offered a little different twist on the "common knowlede". I am currently reading Lens and Light. It is a very wordy book but seems to cover so many of the basics...again. Each time I read something, even if it is a rehearsal of what I already know, I learn something new. Then I get one more nugget.

Next, I drill and practice, drill and practice, drill and practice.

I also have about ten books on photoshop and photorefinishing.

I don't think I can buy anymore books.

[KellyL]

Originally Posted by Brooks

Good question, KG!

Has anyone done the dynamic range/exposure tests mentioned way back in the early part of this thread? Has anyone tested for the actual ISO of their sensor? Or tested for the calibratiion of their camera meter and/or hand-held meter?

This is simple stuff which will make a real difference in your photography.

Brooks: I posted my results to the test you suggested. Much to my shame, I have not done the other exercises...but they are on my list.

Kirk will be unhappy with me until I FINALLY do what needs to be done.

[heartseye]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Brooks: I posted my results to the test you suggested. Much to my shame, I have not done the other exercises...but they are on my list.

Kirk will be unhappy with me until I FINALLY do what needs to be done.

What Brooks said...VERY good advice. To be a real fanatic about it, you really need to test both flash and external meter with EVERY lens you use....the marked f/stops are likely accurate enough, but the Transmitted light will usually differ more than you might think. Bob

[Bunyip]

I accidently sent this twice, amended version above.

[Bunyip]

Dear Kelly,

I had intended to work my way through the whole of this thread from the beginning before responding (still 12 pages to go), but I was unable to resist puting my oar in the water at this point.

It seems to me that all your posted pictures, so far, have been 1 to 2 stops under-exposed.

I find "Brooks" to be the most lucid and consistent of the posters, with practical suggestions for getting consistently acceptable exposures, which actually work and make sense.

As I see it, the dynamic range of any scene (maybe 21 stops) generally exceeds the dynamic range of the camera's sensor/film (maybe 5 or 6 stops).

The photographer's goal is to capture that section of the range which he/she considers to be most essential to their "take" (no pun intended) of that scene.

This involves making choices.

Capture the important highlights or the important shadows. (The mid-range will take care of itself, using "the system"))

The "Zone System" (as explained by Brooks) enables the photographer (you) to make sensible, informed, decisions as to how to do that.

OK, this means "memorizing" the middle 5 of the basic 11 step grayscale that is "the system".

Once you have done that, you can throw away your 18%-grey card and the dome of your incident-light meter.

Using whatever reflected-light meter you have (hand-held or onboard the camera), meter the brightest highlight you want to retain detail in (or the darkest shadow you want to retain detail in), add 2 stops (for the highlight) or deduct 2 stops (for shadow), frame, focus and take your shot: Bingo every time!

This is what Brooks did with his picture of "The Boat".

[Bunyip]

Getting into deeper water with my posting attempt, but should be OK next time.

[Bunyip]

Looks to me as a typical shot where the sky has fooled the meter: perfectly exposed...for the sky!

You should have "chimped", and tried again with +2ev exposure compensation?

[KellyL]

Bunyip...welcome to our very, very lengthy thread. Thanks for the advice. I have progressed quite a bit since the beginning of this thread. Brooks does give great advice, as does a number of folks on this thread.

On your last post, we are not sure who you are talking to! If you highlight a portion of a post and then click QUOTE then it can clear things up.

Thanks for stopping by.

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 3
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0

KellyL,

Try Neutral or Authentic, all other values to 0, this will give a different JPG in the review/chimp mode, Standard blows highlights easier than Neutral or Authentic

...'s €0.02...

Kindest regards!

Max@Home

[expensive_hobby]

Kelly you are making incredible strides! I also haven't done at least one suggested "test". Shame on me too!


Bunyip are you talking to me about the one picture from vacation? (And doesn't everyone just love that illusive hair somewhere inside my camera?!)

I was shooting manual, and I believe the camera does not allow for exp comp at all when doing so. But yes, I should have chimped to see. But wouldn't increasing anything have caused the sky to blow out? Maybe we should take that trip again for me to test it out.

And thanks for the link jfrancho! I'll be checking that out.