Understanding Exposure

[jfrancho]

Originally Posted by kgphoto

Actually, I recommend to use manual exposure all the time. Once you get it down so that you understand, then you can switch to auto if you want to take happy snaps and be lazy. However, you will find you get so fast using manual, that you will really regret using auto and getting a fouled up shot.

I recommend it, too, but I don't consider using one of the AE modes "lazy." Tools don't always have equate to lazy or sloppy photography, they can also be a pathway to efficiency, if that is the goal.

Though, if you're just centering the meter by adjusting one of the three exposure settings (Tv, Av, or ISO) without metering the different aspects of the scene, then you might as well be in an auto exposure mode, like Av or Tv. At least both allow some creative control with respect to the exposure settings. Couple that with with the ability to shift exposure compensation, and they are powerful shooting modes, especially when capturing the moment is more important than a perfect exposure.

What I like so much about manual mode is that I can meter a scene, move the camera around, and decide how I want to expose it, finalize my settings, and forget about that technical aspect of the picture, to concentrate on composition, framing, focus, etc.

[Worm324]

Originally Posted by jfrancho

What I like so much about manual mode is that I can meter a scene, move the camera around, and decide how I want to expose it, finalize my settings, and forget about that technical aspect of the picture, to concentrate on composition, framing, focus, etc.

That is exactly what I need to utilize it for more I was using exposure compensation which works, but it still floats around, so there was guess work involved on my part which was not necessary. I usually bracket though so it wasn't a big deal other than tons of wasted shots

Best,
Jay

[Worm324]

Originally Posted by Max@Home

...it certainly ain't rocket science

...and then you buy a 'real' flashgun and the search begins again

...€0.02...

Kindest regards!

Max@Home

I wish i just had endless cash at my disposal Then again, whats the point of having the best stuff if you don't know how to utilize it. Hopefully by the time I get a high quality camera body I will have a very good understanding of all this crap

Best,
Jay

[KellyL]

Anybody who wants to tell me what this means is more than welcome to chime in:

[heartseye]

I think, Kelly, that it might mean this thread has turned your brain to a senseless mush. And the you just need to go out and take photographs. Cheers.....Moi...

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Anybody who wants to tell me what this means is more than welcome to chime in:

Originally Posted by KellyL

If the lens is at 50mm then in normal flash I can expect the output to be 137 feet

Originally Posted by KellyL

That sounds preposterous!

...understanding exposure: terminologie: Flash Guide Number

(From PhotoNotes.ORG, the unofficial Canon EOS Flash Encyclopedia )

...€0.02...

Kindest regards!

Max@Home

[blumesan]

Kelly,
What you have posted is a chart of guide numbers for manual settings for an unidentified flash attachment. Across the top is the focal length of the lens in use (and, presumably, the focal length you have set on the flash). The left hand column is, obviously, the flash output (strength) you have set on the flash; from full power (1/1) thru 1/128 of full power. The body of the chart gives the guide numbers (meters/feet). These guide numbers are used to determine the appropriate aperture: divide the guide number by the distance from your subject = f stop.

E.G. With the flash adjusted for a 70mm lens and set at 1/4 power: If you were 5 meters from the subject, the aperture should be set at f:5.0 (25/5).

Note that the chart assumes an ISO sensitivity of 100. For lower or higher iso you make the appropriate adjustment.

Hope this helps.
Cheers/Mike

[KellyL]

I have considered that Bob, that all this is just a bunch of mush.

Scott Kelby, who has some incredible photography, is editor of Photoshop User, noted author and speaker, a true professional photographer in every sense of the word, uses AV in so many of his pictures. In his books, he encourages his users to use AV. He never once hints that by doing so, one is lazy. Over and over in his book on The Digital Camera he encourages the reader to just trust the meter in the camera. I would have to go back and check, but I don't think he ever mentions using a meter, other than the one in his camera. I may be wrong, but I don't remember that coming up in the book.

An article in Outdoor Photography this month features getting better exposures with a digital camera. Obviously there is a lot of confusion on how to get the best exposure. The author of the book goes on and on defining the problem, but doesn't offer too many real, solid solutions. He does, eventually, bring up the manipulation of the Sunny 16 rule to aid photographers on getting the exposures they want. But he doesn't give exact here...do this...do this...do this....I can be wrong, and I plan on rereading the article when I can find some time.

So...can somebody tell me what those numbers mean?

[KellyL]

Thank you Max and Blusman. I had no idea. I don't know what guidenumbers are. I suppose a real photographer would know, has them memorized, and can calculate the f stop mentally in his mind based upon the estimated distance to the subject.

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by Worm324

I wish i just had endless cash at my disposal

...even then, you have to make choices of what-to-bring on every outing, as you can't schlepp them all (unless you hire a bunch of Lens-Caddy's ), and the one you *really* need is always @Home

Then again, whats the point of having the best stuff if you don't know how to utilize it. Hopefully by the time I get a high quality camera body I will have a very good understanding of all this cr@p

...even if you have all the expertize in the world, if you buy new sh*t you have to learn new sh*t , but, with your current growth in understanding and eagerness to learn, *I* trust you can make good use of anything, from a 'Brownie' to a 'Hassy'

...but just *my* €0.02 worth...

Kindest regards!

Max@Home

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Thank you Max and Blusman. I had no idea. I don't know what guidenumbers are.

...google is your friend... teacher...

I suppose a real photographer would know, has them memorized, and can calculate the f stop mentally in his mind based upon the estimated distance to the subject.

...something like that, or he just knows the general meaning, and then lets E-TTL(2) and/or a good consistent flash meter and/or Some Experience tell him what to set, and adjusts as the histogram of his testshots indicates...

...'s €0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

[expensive_hobby]

Originally Posted by jfrancho

Though, if you're just centering the meter by adjusting one of the three exposure settings (Tv, Av, or ISO) without metering the different aspects of the scene, then you might as well be in an auto exposure mode, like Av or Tv. At least both allow some creative control with respect to the exposure settings. Couple that with with the ability to shift exposure compensation, and they are powerful shooting modes, especially when capturing the moment is more important than a perfect exposure.

You know, that's how I learned to shoot almost from day one, so when I first found this thread everyone was just blowing my mind with this *technical* stuff. And I do find myself still doing this, such as at my nephew's bday party over the weekend. When the subjects are 4 and under I had no time to ensure exposure was remotely close, let alone spot on.

[Crotographer]

Most everything in photography comes from practice, with respected advice. After that, you're on your own. The Marketplace is your judge. You have to judge your talent to build your confidence. This confidence comes from your audience. No audience, no sales.

The whole gig is really quite simple, you have it or you don't. The "have it" part comes to spending hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month....Of upending your satisfaction with your own work. It's up to you.

Like anything else as an adult, you're on your own to hone your vision with practical means.

[jfrancho]

The Marketplace is your judge.

Not necessarily so. Not everyone practices photography with the intention of selling their work.

[cyclohexane]

you have to make choices of what-to-bring on every outing, as you can't schlepp them all (unless you hire a bunch of Lens-Caddy's ), and the one you *really* need is always @Home

Yeah, seriously. I bought another speedlight and some small stands instead of getting a set of nice big strobes because after schlepping 50+ pounds of strobes and related equipment up and down about a mile of stairs and hills, it's not worth the effort, and I can get enough light if I just bring an extra speedlight.

When the subjects are 4 and under I had no time to ensure exposure was remotely close, let alone spot on.

That's why we learn some of the technical stuff mentioned in this thread; that way, we can ballpark the exposure before having to shoot the young'uns. =)

[Crotographer]

JF, fair enough. Then, where does a photographers confidence come from? And, if there is a photo taker here that doesn't want to sell their work I would be very surprised.

Of course, i may be quite out to lunch on this topic. Hmmmmm?

[KellyL]

A summary of the article in Outdoor Photographer:

1. Metering: Use evaluative in most situations, although spot will give you the best readings for the best exposure, if you use a hand held, one degree spot meter.

2. Bracket when possible, using 1/2 or 1 stop increments.

3. Learn how to read a scene. Through trial and error, learn when to use your exposure compensation.

4. When encountering problematic scenes, learn from experience. Use AE lock when you zoom in on a particular part of the scene, then recompose.

5. Chimp your shots.

6. Learn to read a histogram. (Although the article doesn't do a real good job of explaining histograms).

7. Memorize and use the Basic Daylight Exposure (BDE: shutter 1/ISO, f/16) and use it when you don't have time to adjust the camera. Be creative with the BDE. At ISO 200, the BDE for bright sun is 1⁄200 sec. at ƒ/16, or 1⁄400 sec. at ƒ/11, 1⁄800 sec. at ƒ/8, 1⁄1600 sec. at ƒ/5.6 and 1⁄3200 sec. at ƒ/4

7. Use AV mode on cloudy days when BDE is not possible due to rapid change in light conditions.

8. Shoot RAW

9. Learn how to process two RAW files for the same high dynamic scene and combine them in Photoshop.

10. Practice until you learn the brightness range of the camera. Using a spot meter, meter the area you would like to have as the brightest. Since the meter will provide a reading that renders the area at a medium brightness, make a judgment call. If you want that area brighter than the medium brightness, open the camera one or two stops. If you want the area to be darker than medium brightness, stop the camera down one or two stops. With experience, you will learn how to read a scene and how to stop the camera up and down to produce the desired results.

All in all, this is the advice given by the photographers here on this fine site. It is time for me to close this chapter of my Camel experience. I won't be posting in this thread again.

Each one of you has provided a piece of the puzzle, which was nicely summed up in the article that was handed to me this morning.

What began as a quest to understand exposure has taught me many things. Above all else, nothing, no nothing, will help more than practice. But if an individual doesn't know some basic rules, then practice is harmful. Good practice moves one towards perfection. Bad practice moves one towards frustation. You don't have children practice addition and subtraction until you give them the basic rules.

What I was seeking was a set of basic rules that I could use to help me understand exposure better. In the beginning, I thought that there would be some hard fast rules that could be applied in any given situation. What frustrated me was how elusive those hard fast rules are. What I have learned is that each one of us must determine what we feel is a good exposure, and through practice develop an intuitiveness that pleases us.

I have learned that part of surveying the scene is learning that what reality presents is far more dynamic than what my camera can capture. Through practice and analysis, I can begin to read a scene and make a judgment on how I would like to shoot it. Generally speaking, expose for the highlights to keep them from blowing. That seems to be the greater sin than causing shadows to melt into mud.

But the idea, how I want to shoot it, is where the artistry of photography comes in. At the beginning of this thread, I had a mindset that there was an exact science to create perfect exposures. From all that I have seen, heard, and read, that science does not exist. An approximation of the science is available, some fundamentals can be used, but the photographer must develop an eye that can quickly read the scene, meter the important parts of the scene, decide where on the exposure ruler the important parts should be placed, and set an exposure accordingly.

At times, manual will be the mode of choice. But other times warrant the use of other methods. There is nothing wrong with using Av, Tv, or, heaven forbid, P on the camera.

I want to thank each and everyone of you for sharing your knowledge. I understand the value that time is to each one of us, so I thank all of you.

Thank you Michael, Kirk, John, John C, Blumsman, Pensive, Mark, Jay, Brian, Dean, Max, Craig, Dave, Bob (one should never start lists, because someone will get left out)...how do I go through all 26 pages and thank each and everyone of you for writing and sharing and taking the time? Thanks.

I'll see ya later.

[heartseye]

Kelly...bear in mind that the articles in ANY of the mags are designed to SELL the magazine. Many of them are 69th genaration re-hashes of what they have already said 68 times. I've seen many of your images. I don't see any exposure problems at all. Waht I do see sometimes, is an unfortunate dynamic range being attempted without reference to specific appproaches to that issue.....but exposure? Not you, my friend....Bob

[KellyL]

Thanks Bob. (I know, I said I wouldn't be posting on this thread again, but I'm not talking anything about exposure here.) I do see that my understanding has grown. And now I do have a rudimentary understanding of the dynamic range of the camera.

You know...my whole approach to learning this thing has been to put everything right out there and let people know from the get go...I know little or nothing. I appreciate all of the folks who have stepped up to add to my knowledge.

[Worm324]

Kelly,
Great summary and conclusion on your part I think after reading all this and with the limited experience I have, I total agree with what you concluded We now have several top quality tools/ techniques to use to help us get the best exposure possible in all conditions. Now it's time to use our toolbox of tools until we perfect every one of them

All the best to everyone and thank you Kelly for starting this thread and keeping it going for as long as it has!! You have the most effort and eagerness to learn I've ever seen. You also have the nerve to post your raw images on here for all to see over and over! I only know of a handful of people willing to do that. And IMO, that is the best way to show people what your doing and getting the best help available

Bravo!!

Best,
Jay