Understanding Exposure

[expensive_hobby]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Question for the thread: What would Jay have done differently to get a better original exposure of the cart? Or was a better exposure possible?

Now this is an *interesting* question. And I say that because I was wondering that myself about the experiment ones I posted. I think by seeing the before and after a viewer can have a better appreciation of the circumstances the person had to overcome. I really feel if I would have simply posted the very last pic of mine somewhere here on PC, and asked for a critique on strictly the exposure, nothing more nothing less-- the opinions would be all over the board.

I really believe if Jay (...sorry to talk like you're not here Jay...) would have increased the exposure even the slightest bit, the white petunias would be blown out-- and quite possibly the highlighted grass. Any less, and details within the dusty miller and purple creeping flowers would have been gone.

Changing angle to the exact opposite looks like he would have had a background with everything blown out based on how the shadows are falling and the highlights of the sun.

So, imo, he did good.

[heartseye]

Agrees with EH....the original is a challenging situation and the pp is right on! Regards...Bob

[jfrancho]

Probably the only thing that could be done different is to shoot at a different time of day. I always hate it when someone offers that advice, so really, I think the picture is perfect.

[expensive_hobby]

Originally Posted by jfrancho

Probably the only thing that could be done different is to shoot at a different time of day. I always hate it when someone offers that advice, so really, I think the picture is perfect.

Me too! My schedule/life does not allow me to shoot at any time of the day I want, let alone the opportunity to revisit the location. Sometimes you just have to work with what you're given.

[Worm324]

Thanks for all the comments on my picture As far as the sharpening goes, I highly recommend reading Jfrancho's tutorials and that will clear up any questions you may have. I took everything I could from those tutorials and tried to apply them to my work flow in the best way possible.

Since reading those tutorials I think my Post processing has improved dramatically!! I should probably read them again come to think of it!

1 thing to remember though is every picture is different so your really can't do the same exact thing for each image.

Best,
Jay

[KellyL]

Can I say "excellent responses"! Jay a great big thank you for putting it out there and allowing this discussion. You have demonstrated the limits of the DR of the camera and the need to PP for optimum viewing and printing. Great responses, greast job everybody.

[Dean Johnson]

Jay, wonderful work on that shot. I've been busy and haven't been able to keep up with this thread as much as I'd like to. but I at least wanted to let you know what I thought of the image and the work you did on it.
Sometimes we have to make judgments on "proper" exposure and then work with what we get. In this case I think you exposed it the same way I would have.

[Tom Swaman]

We may need to wrap up this thread. Word has it an election is forthcoming and the politicians are coercing the gendarme to crack down on exposure in an affort to shift the focus away from their cruddy images! Alas and alack, let us bring Mapelthorpe back!

Tom

[KellyL]

Although much of the exposure questions have to do with natural light outside, I was very happy that I was able to get some exposures right at a recent shoot.

First, the family informed me that they wanted on group photo, all thirty family members. The asked for a gray background. When I arrived, all my equipment in hand, and set up in the too small room, they informed me that they decided to place Grandpa in this chair, elevated off of the floor. It was the couple's 60th wedding anniversary, and the man, John, was 85 years old. He had very limited mobility. Not able to walk, they boys picked him up and placed him on the chair.

The family told me they were not intrested in doing any individual shots. Time was short before the party and they really just wanted to get a big family portrait. I arrived an hour early, set up the backdrop, set up the lighting and tested it. I was very pleased that I was able to get a reading, set my camera, and have good exposure. The lighting was set up with two AB 800's on the left and right, and one AB 800 behind the camera as a shoot through. I did this because I knew I was going to need to light 30 people as evenly as possible.

No sooner did the family show up,then they began saying...Oh..we need one of mom and dad alone. We need one of mom dad and the kids. We need one with.....this isn't how they told me the shoot would go and the lighting was not set up for those kinds of pictures.

Regardless of the overalll flat ligting, this picture demonstrates a step forward for me in exposure control. I had control over the lights, the meter and the camera. Although I dropped the exposure .5 stops in lightroom, and corrrected the color cast using curves as recommended by Vincent Versace in "Welcome to Oz" I was pleased with the exposure. I even set my white balance before beginning. I've learned something.

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by KellyL

...this isn't how they told me the shoot would go and the lighting was not set up for those kinds of pictures...

KellyL, you just learned another invaluable lesson:

Shoots of more than 2 people almost ALWAYS go in a different way than discussed/agreed upon earlier...

...during your preparation and setup, always plan for those 'unexpecteds': you could pretty easily have used either left or right as key, and you already had a good fill ready ...

...€0.02...

Kindest regards!

Max@Home

[expensive_hobby]

Excellent job Kelly! She looks cute as a button and quite spry for her age! And he looks like he's thinking: are they done fussing yet?

Looks great to me!

[KellyL]

Max, HELLO?? What was wrong with me? All I had to do was turn off one of the lights!!!!! Oh my gosh, what was I thinking...or not thinking. Good grief. Well, a lesson learned. Next time....next time....if there is a next time. These folks weren't happy with their pictures.

[kgphoto]

Really! Not happy? What were their criticisms? Did they have unrealistic expectations?

Admittedly, I could have done a better shot, but not in that chair, in that room, with that sudden change of criteria. Or was it in relation to the other images. This was not a bad shot of these elderly and infirmed people. If this was indicative of the rest of the shots, I don't think they will have much to really complain about. I hope you didn't give them any images and just refunded their money. When they start to complain about that, then charge them your regular fee and let them buy what they want. Don't let them manipulate you.

Now you see why I have been harping on gaining an understanding of your lights and exposures. You won't be so reluctant to change them in the future and you will know what to do rather than guess and hope for the best. It is very freeing.

[KellyL]

For each set up I took five, maybe six images...explaining to them that I had to do that because of blinking, expressions...etc. They were very put off that I only polished seven portraits and not all 40 shots. They thought they should have 40 shots to look at and make the decision of what was best. I gave them a set of the digital negatives, but before I did I used my Wacom to write all over them and point out why a shot wasn't used. Closed eyes, turned heads, turned bodies, frowns...I also explained that some head swapping was possible, as I did swap two heads in the final group picture, but they were not pleased that I made the decisions of which was the best photograph.

[heartseye]

Kelly , some clients are like that......Others realise they are paying you exactly to make the right decisions for them. The time to catch on to what kind you are dealing with is during the pre-shoot interview. That doesn't always work either, and, for the difficult clients, I generally DO make the choices for them, with the option that they can see everything else too if they want to. Cheers...Bob

[KellyL]

Thanks Bob. I am learning...in every aspect. I have to quit fuming over this and get on with it.

[brice]

Kelly you definitely took a step forward on that image of mom and dad. Did they insist he be raised up off the floor?

[expensive_hobby]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Thanks Bob. I am learning...in every aspect. I have to quit fuming over this and get on with it.

I know it's easier said than done, but don't let them get you all worked up. Chalk it up to a lesson learned, varying opinions (just read all the critiques in various threads here!) and differing expectations.

[kgphoto]

Kelly,

I think you handled it appropriately. After you showed them all the images, did they concur with your choice? Then did you say, "So what the f*** is your problem, then?"

How much did you charge for the session and how much for the prints? I am willing to bet too low. People respect that which costs "enough" or just a little too much, not "cheap." You will find that as you improve and raise your prices your confidence and respect accorded to you will go up.

Don't sweat this group, just take it as a learning experience. You are the pro, they are asking you to make the best image possible. I do like to show 2 or three images, while showing my favorite of each pose, but not 6 of each pose.

[KellyL]

Brice: Yes...being raised or lowered was not up to me.

Thanks Pensive.

Kirk, I charge too little to drag all my equipment out. For prints: 15 for 5x7, 20 for 8 x 10.