Best value in pro-level DSLR on used market

[HalfPress]

What do you think is the best value currently on the used market for a pro-level DSLR? If someone is starting from scratch, wants a pro body, and is on a budget, which used body is best at the moment, in your opinion?

[dc2]

I would be tempted by the canon 1D mark 1.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Originally Posted by HalfPress

If someone is starting from scratch [...]

. . . I would start with a point & shoot camera and learn the basics of photography, well, before I'd even start to consider pro gear.
If someone starts from scratch in car racing, they start with smaller cars.
Because if they got a Ferrari, they'd crash it – and themselves – before they even got out of the starting gate!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography is a good place to start, and http://www.photocamel.com/ can probably answer your more specific questions.

Some more URLs for beginning photographers
How Cameras Work: http://science.howstuffworks.com/camera.htm
How Camera Flashes Work: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/camera-flash.htm
How Digital Cameras Work: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/digital-camera.htm
How Paparazzi Work: http://people.howstuffworks.com/paparazzi.htm
About lenses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_lens
Adorama Academy: http://www.adorama.com/academy
Guidelines for Better Photographic Composition: http://photoinf.com/General/KODAK/gu...mposition.html

If you're a really quick learner and you've got all that under your belt – and a couple years of hands-on experience – you may perhaps be ready for pro gear.

[cyclohexane]

What do you intend to be shooting with pro level gear?* I mainly do people, events, and sports, so I'll answer for what I'm shooting:

The Nikon D1H is pretty darn cheap, and lacks many of the quirks that have made the original D1 a less desirable (but no less capable) camera to be using.* This, plus a screwdrive AF lens or two, is a great starting place.* I fancy that for high school level (or below) sports, a D1H paired with an 80-200mm f/2.8D AF would be a great starting place.* Watch out for the batteries though, as they're far inferior to current Li-ion ones.* The wider end could be covered by either a 20-35mm f/2.8D AF or a 18-35mm f/3.5-5.6D AF; while these aren't true wide angles, they will deliver quality images (and they're available cheap).* If I needed to provide some sort of sports/general event coverage and I had no gear/little money, I'd follow the above course I just described, adding a 50mm f/1.8D AF ($100) for when the lights really go out.

Alternatively, the Canon 1D, already recommended by dc2, is another option.* This camera's held it's value a lot better than the Nikon equivalent (the D2H I use), but my take is that it has something to do with the fact that (1) it's a good camera (2) it's accessories are still current (3) it didn't have the near IR pollution and meter death problems of the D2H that soiled it's reputation (the 1D did have banding at high ISO though).* My experience with Canon is limited, but I'd definitely snag the 70-200mm f/4L USM, as it's a sweet lens at a sweet price that simply cannot be beat.* I'd guess that a 1D, 17-40mm f/4L, and 70-200mm f/4L would make a great kit for everything except maybe lower light/night/indoor sports.* A fast 50mm lens would again be an inexpensive way to get more speed should it be needed.

[scoundrel1728]

My answer is "That depends..."

Seriously. It really does depend on why the person wants a pro body. If it were me, I would give a bit on the body and put the money into good lenses. Then, when I could afford a better (camera) body, the first could act as a backup or second body. I might feel a bit different about this if I were habitually shooting in conditions requiring weather sealing; but for studio and lighter-duty shooting, some of the midrange bodies would give more bang for the buck.

Also, when starting from scratch, you are investing in a camera system of which the individual body model is a fairly small part. Of at least as much importance is the selection of lenses available presently and in the future and where the manufacturer (and competitors producing bodies compatible with the lenses) is going with future designs. If you want full-frame, for example, Canon is the only game in town despite one or two Kodak full-frame models that take Nikon mount lenses.

[badpickev]

easy id go with the fuji :

ok ok all kidding aside, cheap body, great lenses. why? bodies come and go about every 9-15 months. lenses last a lifetime.

[Jon]

I will be the second person to actually answer your question.

Nikon D2H is now $1500-$1700 US average depending on extras and condition.

[Blinky]

Like Jon, I think the Nikon Pro bodies are good values (if a digital body is ever a good value) if you can cherry pick a used one... I'm still happily banging away with a D1x and it does the job.

I don't own one but the Nikon D200 seems perfectly capable of most anything you would need it to do.

Chip

[JDArt]

Originally Posted by Jon

I will be the second person to actually answer your question.

Nikon D2H is now $1500-$1700 US average depending on extras and condition.

I haven't scanned going prices on eBay for a D2H, but I have for the 1D, which is selling for anywhere from $900 - $1200. In that case, I'd argue that the 1D is the better value.

[cameraguy21773]

As much as I like my D2H, I think the best DSLR value out there right now is the D1x, a breakthrough camera in its time. It has all the right features with just the right mix of resolution, AF, metering, etc. and it handles like a dream. With prices of $600-1000 depending on condition and accessories it is still a bargin. I carry two everywhere and though I plan to add a couple of newer bodies soon (let's see what comes out of Photokina) these old stand-bys will stay in the inventory.

[cyclohexane]

Originally Posted by JDArt

I haven't scanned going prices on eBay for a D2H, but I have for the 1D, which is selling for anywhere from $900 - $1200. In that case, I'd argue that the 1D is the better value.

Recently, the D2H has been suffering on the used market. It's about the same price now, and boils down to a few features:

Canon 1D:
1. Canon EF lenses
2. smaller buffer
3. no playback zoom
4. 1D-body styling, NiMH batteries
5. 45-point AF system, better for bright light
6. Slight edge in resolution; I hear (have not worked with) the RAW files are a little nicer than the D2H's.
7. Company with better grey market service policies, better overall customer response

Nikon D2H:
1. Nikon F-mount lenses
2. larger buffer
3. playback zoom
4. D2-body styling, Li-ion batteries
5. 11-point AF system, better for low light
6. Near IR pollution that screws up the blue channel noise (use a gaussian blur in LAB mode to get rid of it)
7. Free overhaul available for dead meter defect

[HalfPress]

Originally Posted by B

Like Jon, I think the Nikon Pro bodies are good values (if a digital body is ever a good value) if you can cherry pick a used one... I'm still happily banging away with a D1x and it does the job.

I don't own one but the Nikon D200 seems perfectly capable of most anything you would need it to do.

Chip

I've been reading around, and it seems like the Nikon bodies have more maintenance issues than Canon bodies. Lots of ads talk about the rubber no longer adhering to the Nikon cameras. Weird

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by cyclohexane

Canon 1D:
5. 45-point AF system, better for bright light

Nikon D2H:
5. 11-point AF system, better for low light

Why would fewer AF points be better for low light AF?

[badpickev]

Originally Posted by HalfPress

I've been reading around, and it seems like the Nikon bodies have more maintenance issues than Canon bodies. Lots of ads talk about the rubber no longer adhering to the Nikon cameras. Weird

actually its not htat weird. canon has replaced its cameras on a faster rotation than nikon does. also nikon users are used to more robust bodies and do not upgrade as often. there are people still using a d1x, they have no plan to get a d2x, until its replaced.

[badpickev]

but in all honesty. the Fuji S2 pro is a great started camera for someone looking at getting into a Nikon line up. its in the $400 range price wise and can use all the Nikon lenses. it doesn't meter with the MF lenses but you can use them with a light meter. you get great jpegs straight out of the camera and raw files that are some of the most flexible out there.

[TonyK]

The points for Fuji S2 are valid. I started with a Canon D30 (not the 30D) and moved up. Well, honestly I started with a Canon rangefinder back in 1974 and moved to a Konica SLR, then Canon A-1 (all film), the a Casio QV3000, a Olympus E-10 then the Canon D30.

To the point, I would look at the lens line from both Nikon and Canon. Decide which lens system you want to buy in to. That narrows down your choices. If you decide you like the Nikon lens line, look at the bodies that use Nikon glass. Again the Fuji is a good system. My nits with it are the split battery system it uses.

Now the comment on glass does not mean you could not use 3rd party lenses. I have 2 Tamron and 1 Canon lens and am very happy with my selection for my 20D.

Good luck and have fun.

[cyclohexane]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

Why would fewer AF points be better for low light AF?

I was listing the number of AF points first, and where the AF system performs better second. The two aren't inherently related. While the D2H has 11 selectable AF points versus the 1D's 45, the D2H focuses much better in lowlight due to the three CCD sensors (MULTICAM 2000: 2000 sensing elements) and superior algorithims employed for AF. I haven't been able to get an answer on how many CCD sensors the 1D uses for AF, but most cameras only use one CCD. The D2H was the first camera I've heard of using more than one CCD for AF.

Unrelated, but the battery life difference between the 1D and the D2H is huge (less so with teh 1D MK.II).

By the way, I hear Cameta Camera (great dealer, I get stuff from them) might have the D2H for $1200 new in box, but I haven't confirmed this. I got mine for $1800 new a while back.

I'd still buy a 1D if I wanted one though. =)