HARTBLEI Tilt Shift

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Has anyone used the MC TS-PC HARTBLEI 35mm / f=2.8 Super-Rotator Tilt Shift, specifically with Canon 5D or EOS digital cameras. I'm considering buying one and would like your views/opinions. Some sample images would be great too.

[Rense]

I'm dreaming of this lens, but I don't have one. Please keep me informed.

[kevgermany]

There is/was a review of the 45mm on LL here Hartblei Superrotator

but it didn't work for me when I tried it a couple of minutes ago.

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Originally Posted by kevgermany

There is/was a review of the 45mm on LL here Hartblei Superrotator

but it didn't work for me when I tried it a couple of minutes ago.

Originally Posted by Rense

I'm dreaming of this lens, but I don't have one. Please keep me informed.

Thanks, checked out the LL review earlier.

Email sent to Hartblei yesterday, I'm sure I'll go ahead and order, delivery tales about 2 weeks as they complete assembly on receipt of orders. Will let you know and post a few images as well.

[dougsmit]

This is a lesson I learned buying a manual fisheye. Consider the possibility of buying the lens in M42 mount rather than EOS. I came close a while back to the 65mm lens and decided the money was more than my need. I noted then that the minimum focus of that lens was longer than my desires and it is easier to add M42 rings than EOS with contacts than need to be taped on a lens lacking contacts. Perhaps this is no issue with the 35mm (I never looked at it). This also would allow an adapter with focus confirmation capability if this seems of any use. Just a thought - I will be anxious to see your results.

[walter23]

Didn't Hartblei partner up with Carl Zeiss or something and start putting out $1500 tilt-shift lenses instead of their bargain ones? Or am I way off base here?

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Originally Posted by dougsmit

This is a lesson I learned buying a manual fisheye. Consider the possibility of buying the lens in M42 mount rather than EOS. I came close a while back to the 65mm lens and decided the money was more than my need. I noted then that the minimum focus of that lens was longer than my desires and it is easier to add M42 rings than EOS with contacts than need to be taped on a lens lacking contacts. Perhaps this is no issue with the 35mm (I never looked at it). This also would allow an adapter with focus confirmation capability if this seems of any use. Just a thought - I will be anxious to see your results.

Interesting point, I will most likely take your advice as it will not only have more flexibility in use, it will also make it easier to sell on. Thanks a lot.

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Originally Posted by walter23

Didn't Hartblei partner up with Carl Zeiss or something and start putting out $1500 tilt-shift lenses instead of their bargain ones? Or am I way off base here?

Your right, confirm it at: Hartblei Superrotator and you'll find the price a bit lower: Price List - HARTBLEI & Kiev Cameras and Lenses | HARTBLEI

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A comprehensive review with comparison images: Review of Hartblei 35 SR for Canon & Nikon - FM Forums

[walter23]

Originally Posted by lightup

Your right, confirm it at: Hartblei Superrotator and you'll find the price a bit lower: Price List - HARTBLEI & Kiev Cameras and Lenses | HARTBLEI

Oops, $1000 for the 35mm. Still not really what I'd consider a bargain exactly considering I think these were about $400 or $500 a couple of years ago. I guess it has better movements than the canon TS-E lens though, which is restricted to one axis for tilt and shift.

Of course, you can get a decent large format camera for $1000. If you want camera movements that's the way to go.

[dougsmit]

I believe the 35mm at $1000 is a new model offering refinements like the 12 blade diaphragm. It is interesting that it is nearly double the price of the cheapest Hartblei so I suspect their new direction is toward quality rather than price. If used on a FF camera, I'd question how much movement you could get from a 35mm before running out of image circle. These are such very specialized lenses that each must look closely at intended purpose and pick the focal length that fits.

Sure you can get a decent large format camera for $1000 - a film camera. Add a decent lens that covers enough to make movements work and a digital back and the price bumps up a bit. There are excellent lenses in terms of sharpness that (at least used to) sell for low prices. Thirty years ago I bought my antique Protars which had ridiculous coverage (for the day - 110 degrees), decent sharpness and the speed of f/18 wide open. I do not know if they have gone up too much (modern photographers usually value features they lacked).

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Originally Posted by dougsmit

I believe the 35mm at $1000 is a new model offering refinements like the 12 blade diaphragm. It is interesting that it is nearly double the price of the cheapest Hartblei so I suspect their new direction is toward quality rather than price. If used on a FF camera, I'd question how much movement you could get from a 35mm before running out of image circle. These are such very specialized lenses that each must look closely at intended purpose and pick the focal length that fits.

Sure you can get a decent large format camera for $1000 - a film camera. Add a decent lens that covers enough to make movements work and a digital back and the price bumps up a bit. There are excellent lenses in terms of sharpness that (at least used to) sell for low prices. Thirty years ago I bought my antique Protars which had ridiculous coverage (for the day - 110 degrees), decent sharpness and the speed of f/18 wide open. I do not know if they have gone up too much (modern photographers usually value features they lacked).

Phew a bit technical for me, I've got a rough grip on what you're saying re the sensor size. The large format option sounds like it's worth looking into especially the enormous coverage...110 degrees!
I've been in contact with Hartblei and will post the replies to my enquiries, good for a chuckle:

Dear Anton

Would you mind telling me why and also what alternatives are available, if not also why. I'm intrigued as there are plenty of examples on the internet, with pictures of Canon EOS cameras fitted with the lens and images produced with that combination. I'm very keen to get hold of one as the reviews are very favourable.

Regards again

Clive

Perhaps he thinks I'm in complete ignorance of this lens/camera combination or could it be a hangover from the old days?

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Cut it off, here goes again.

Dear Anton
Would you mind telling me why and also what alternatives are available, if not also why. I'm intrigued as there are plenty of examples on the internet, with pictures of Canon EOS cameras fitted with the lens and images produced with that combination. I'm very keen to get hold of one as the reviews are very favourable.
Regards again
Clive

Dear Clive,
Unfortunately this lens is not available.
Regards,
sales / Hartblei Co
Anton Markov

Dear Anton
That's a shame, how about the same lens with the M42 mount and a canon EOS EF adaptor?
Regards
Clive

Dear Clive,
Sorry, but this lens is not possible also.
Regards,
Anton Markov

Dear Anton
Would you mind telling me why and also what alternatives are available, if not also why. I'm intrigued as there are plenty of examples on the internet, with pictures of Canon EOS cameras fitted with the lens and images produced with that combination. I'm very keen to get hold of one as the reviews are very favorable.
Regards again
Clive




Perhaps he thinks I'm in complete ignorance of this lens/camera combination or could it be a hangover from the old days?[/quote]

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Originally Posted by walter23

Oops, $1000 for the 35mm. Still not really what I'd consider a bargain exactly considering I think these were about $400 or $500 a couple of years ago. I guess it has better movements than the canon TS-E lens though, which is restricted to one axis for tilt and shift.

Of course, you can get a decent large format camera for $1000. If you want camera movements that's the way to go.

Not sure about the price a couple of years ago, could it be the lower quality Arsat madel?

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Just found this! Canon View Camera

[walter23]

Yeah, I've seen those backs. You'd probably have to make quite a few captures and do a lot of stitching to get anything useful, but they probably work fine. Part of the appeal of large format is the large capture area and the optical relationships (dof, etc) that implies, so I don't think you'd really be able to use satisfactorily it without doing multi-image stitching. At the very least you'd have to do it to preserve reasonable fields of view. For example, the widest lenses on 4x5 are ~65mm lenses (ultrawide field of view, very expensive), but more common are 90mm to 120mm (about the same as 17mm on a small format DSLR or 28mm fullframe); obviously you'd have to stitch or you'd be getting short to medium telephoto fields of view with these 'wide angle' lenses.

Don't discount large format film just because it's film though; if you are a competent (and perhaps patient) photographer and don't mind shooting lower quantities it's an absolutely fantastic way to shoot. You can develop B&W in lightproof cannisters at home and send colour transparencies out (mail order or a local lab) or develop yourself. Then add a scanner for a couple of hundred bucks and you've got a 200 megapixel hybrid digital capture system.

The photographic process itself is actually pretty rewarding too - at least for me. I'm no longer really that interested in coming home with 500 images (even good ones) on a compact flash card - it's just too much crap to wade through. I find 4x5 much more fulfilling; photography has turned from an exercise in squinting through a viewfinder to an observational process where I'm wandering and exploring photographic opportunities without even pulling my camera out of the bag until I've found the shot I want - and then I get to set it up on a big ground glass under the dark cloth. 4x5 is really nice and pretty practical, 8x10 is amazing but bulkier and expensive (the advantage, besides the amazingly shallow DOF you can get, are 8x10 alt. process contact prints).


The movements are the icing on the cake. No PC lens can get anywhere near the flexibility of a proper view camera.

If you'd like to be talked into it, the guys on Large Format Photography Forum are just the guys to do it. Secondarly, apug.org is very useful (though there's a small, but vocal hard core of fanatical anti-digital users there that you've got to watch out for ).

Originally Posted by lightup

Just found this! Canon View Camera

[dougsmit]

Originally Posted by walter23

Then add a scanner for a couple of hundred bucks and you've got a 200 megapixel hybrid digital capture system.

Please tell me where to get a film scanner for a couple hundred bucks that accepts large format. I have used my cheap scanner with success on 35mm negs but have to transfer 8x10 as prints since the backlight area is just a strip an inch wide. The intermediate paper state really destroys the quality in both tonality and detail. Perhaps it is my lack of skill but the separation in the darkest areas gets lost.