Leica M8 above average... is this a joke?

[Max@Home]

...from DPReview News:

Leica's solution for an 'above average'IR sensibility in a $$$$/€€€€ camerabody...

quote
Secondly the solution for 'above average' IR sensitivity are IR filters which attach to the front of the lens, Leica will be offering two free filters to all M8 owners.
unquote

posted Friday November 24th... I thought I was back on April 1...

Is this serious and if so, your reactions, please

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

[jfrancho]

That's messed up. Can't be right....can it?

[cyclohexane]

No, it's true. There's an issue with ghosting/banding that's sensor/sensor-filter related which I don't much about, and also an IR pollution issue (similar to my D2H, but much worse in samples) in which colors are not rendered properly. Instead of addressing the issue completely by redoing the filtration in front of the sensor, Leica instead offers two free hot mirror filters in any size.

Popular Photography and Imaging (surprisingly) had one of the better articles on it.

For reference, the last two cameras with prominent near IR problems were the Nikon D2H (embarassing enough considering how far back the next one dates) and the Kodak DCS 2000....

[Max@Home]

uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm! (*very* deep sigh)

...whoever said Leica Schmeica

...this is utterly unbelievable, it would make *me* change brand overnight (said the Canoneer to the Nikonian )

...a 'solution' ...IMHO not even €0.02 worth...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

[cyclohexane]

I'm loathe to judge a camera model based mostly on what I read on the internet, given the fact that the two brands I use tend to be subject to all sorts of stuff that's often blown out of proportion thanks to the net- i.e. "unacceptable" high ISO noise...

...the proof is in the prints (even the Nikon D2H prints fairly clean), and well, purple prints purple. If that purple's supposed to black, then well, that's a problem.

it would make *me* change brand overnight (said the Canoneer to the Nikonian

While I didn't change brands (been using Nikon digital already) from Leica, this "response" from Leica has been underwhelming, like you said, not even €0.02 worth (and yes, I have a € key on my keyboard, lol). I do know that I will not be a Leica digital M customer for the forseeable future because of that, which is a shame because we have some lenses in the family. Hot mirror filters aren't a solution...

----------------------------------------------

Seriously though, let's say you buy a Leica M8. It turns out to produce ghosts that aren't lens-related, produces banding in images, and also suffers from infared pollution which makes proper color rendition difficult. I think it'd be reasonable to expect the camera manufacturer- Leica- to fix the problem promptly, and free of charge. It's almost December 2006, and you want your camera to work.

Leica offers to fix the ghosting/banding free of charge; that's fine and dandy. But what about the color? Instead of taking care of that too, they offer two hot mirror filters* free of charge, to be mailed February 2007. Also, they recommend that you purchase their 6-bit encoding service for lenses 16-35mm, which is basically coloring 6-dots on the lens mount that allows the camera to detect the lens used and correct corner issues using software.

What if you own more than two lenses? Additional hot mirror filters (referred to as "special UV/IR filters") "are available from your Leica dealer". I have to pay extra to use the lenses I already had in the Leica-M mount? I thought the whole point of buying a camera with legacy lenses was to save money. Also, 6-bit encoding isn't that cheap either...

(*Hot mirror filters can introduce bounceback flare, which sort of defeats the ghosting fix...)

[cyclohexane]

One thing that escaped me last night: at least Leica has been communicating pretty well with users about the situation.... but hot mirror filters?

[moizes]

Cyckle, didn't I tell I'll see? Didn't I tell R-back isn't good at all at 200 and higher? Did I? I see one solution now - take back ALL of M8, REBUILD, send back to customers. If they don't, Leica days are numbered. Terribly sorry to say so, but there is only mercyless truth of life.

[Paul Shields]

It's a shame that this camera seems to be beset with issues. Maybe it's just growing pains as Leica get more into the digital world, but they really should have captured some of these (the IR issue especially) prior to launch. Still, when I wander around the Leica forums there are a lot of happy campers there and the M8 is still selling very well it appears...

[Frumious Boojum]

Well, like I said last time this was brought up (elsewhere, not here): It's an expensive Holga. The flaws do produce some very interesting effects that some will probably find beautiful, though I doubt the common Leica buyer will. However, photos I've seen with the green ghosts and the light beams, in a way, I like the effect. Some will love the camera for its flaws, some will hate it for its flaws. But all will hate paying that kind of money for those flaws.

[Edward]

I'd like to hear more about the 18/200mm lenses. So far I have heard GOOd and BAD things. Is there a definitive review? By Lumionous Landscape, perhaps ?Edward

[Artichoke]

seem to love spouting opinions about it
the one truth here is that it is expensive, which accounts for much of the ill will being posted
the IR issue is well managed by the filters, but this has not been much of a problem for me and I have not yet gotten a filter for my M8 as I am waiting for my freebies from Leica ...using some of the profiles available from the Leica Users Forum helps greatly with the IR issue, btw
the camera captures amazing details and has lovely color rendition ...it captures seemingly more than one would expect from a 10.5 MP sensor, perhaps due to its weak AA filter, though using the great glass available to an M mount RF helps as well
its DR is not quite that of my S3, but the files are quite deep and the DNG files very well engineered ...for those interested in wide angle photography the M8 is hard to beat
a RF camera is not for everyone and I understand why many like to diss this camera, but I find most of the folks who do have little to no experience with it
outstanding photographers who use high end DSLRs find the M8 more than holds its own with the best out there & does this in a small package that takes some of the finest lenses available