This just in

[patterfr]

DOuglas
Your assertion that the$250 dollar bill is outrageous for an $18 injection just shows that you aren't looking at the whole picture.

That's like saying why would you pay a photographer $100 for a portrait when it only costs $1 to print.

Who's paying his office rent, his insurance, his employees, the electric bill, his student loans, his copy machine repair, his transcription fee, his office upkeep, his ...you get the picture. It's a business. And often it can't be measured by the face time. How many patients can they see in a day and do injections. 20?
Say they charge say only double the cost of the 18 dollars, and say the insurance pays the full 36 dollars billed and doesn't randomly deduct a certain percentage.

20 x 18 profit for each equals 360 dollars. That's an outstanding windfall, no?
C'mon, keep some reality here.

[gsk]

Originally Posted by Douglas

And what really sucks are those off shore ones. 'Hello. My name is John Smith from real American billing company". Right....

As for copays, they are an annoyance. Mainly because we feel if we pay all this money for the coverage, how come theres still money owed? (btw, my copay has gone up $5 last and this year. While my premiums have gone up... And this year, theyre going up 33% woot!)

Im not much of a fan of today's doctors anyway. Perfect example. 2 years ago, I decided to use my benefits. I give blood and they always comment on my low pulse. Enough that I decided to see a doc. So I take a half day off (in august when its 95 and I have no a/c in my car). Drive home first because since I was going under the pretense of doing an establishing visit. Take a shower because I dont want to be sweaty for an exam. And here is all that happend. Filled out paperwork and after waiting, I saw the nurse and answered questions. Waited longer. Finally the doc came in and he spoke to me for maybe 5 min while spending 4:30 min looking at the chart. Then commented on how my blood pressure was high and handed me a prescription for blood pressure meds and left....

A prescription for high blood pressure. No history of it in my family. And again, I just drove 45 min home in a hot car and had taken a hot shower. So yeah, my blood pressure is high. And after that episode, it was probably a bit higher. Threw the script away and never went back to that place. But thats all I hear people say. They go to a doctor and spend minimal time with them, are handed an rx and the doctor leaves. Maybe if we felt we got our money's worth, it wouldnt be an issue.

Did you tell the doctor yourself that you were there becuase you were told your pulse was low?
Have you checked you blood pressure since that visit? Were you given a follow up visit and did you keep it?

[patterfr]

Mine's going up.
Does that count?

[patterfr]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

How about reading the other side's take on the issue before believing the Messiah like that?

Obama was waaaay out of line on that statement. I know a few people who have had amputations due to diabetic complications. To a person, all admit that they didn't do what their doctors told them...and they regret it.

Lack of personal responsibility is not a medical systems fault.

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm Brian.

[gsk]

Originally Posted by patterfr

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm Brian.

My apologies to Brian. Yes; it was meant as sarcasm. Doctors have been the ones getting screwed by insurance companies for years now. The Obama care will be the same. The ones taking "hits" will be the physicians. The general public doesn't see this because physicians for the most part are practicing medicine and not being outspoken.

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by patterfr

DOuglas
Your assertion that the$250 dollar bill is outrageous for an $18 injection just shows that you aren't looking at the whole picture.

That's like saying why would you pay a photographer $100 for a portrait when it only costs $1 to print.

Who's paying his office rent, his insurance, his employees, the electric bill, his student loans, his copy machine repair, his transcription fee, his office upkeep, his ...you get the picture. It's a business. And often it can't be measured by the face time. How many patients can they see in a day and do injections. 20?
Say they charge say only double the cost of the 18 dollars, and say the insurance pays the full 36 dollars billed and doesn't randomly deduct a certain percentage.

20 x 18 profit for each equals 360 dollars. That's an outstanding windfall, no?
C'mon, keep some reality here.

And youre missing my point. You are in the doctors office for lets say an hour, including the obligatory 30-35 min of waiting.

Doctor bills you for the visit. $220
Doctor bills you for the procedure. $164
Doctor bills you for the medicine. $250

So for an actual 20 min of time, most of with the nurse, you are billed $634

Not bad for 20-30 min of time. Now add that up through the day.

And using your numbers 20x18 a day but lets add a whole month. 22 days a month (figuring 30 days - the weekend) = $7920. Plus 20x22xoffice visits, plus 20x20x whatever else they do.

And there are few single doctor's offices. Those that are have what, a couple nurses and a billing person or 2? Most of these are clinics where theres 3-4 doctors on up.

And notice, im not talking about cutting back on the costs of his services or undercutting his prices for these things. Im saying where they are trying to over charge.

Maybe im a cheap bastard. Just like some are bashing Obama's plan because they would be forced to pay for procedures they dont believe in (like abortion), I dont believe I should be charged for medication going into someone else's body. And again, using your example, a 100% markup isnt horrible (at least in the numbers we are saying). But 1000%? Explains why there is a doctor in florida with a very niced sized boat named 'PIP MONEY'.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by gsk

My apologies to Brian. Yes; it was meant as sarcasm. Doctors have been the ones getting screwed by insurance companies for years now. The Obama care will be the same. The ones taking "hits" will be the physicians. The general public doesn't see this because physicians for the most part are practicing medicine and not being outspoken.

Then my apologies. I didn't read the sarcasm in it. Surprising since I seem to be so good at it myself.

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by gsk

Did you tell the doctor yourself that you were there becuase you were told your pulse was low?
Have you checked you blood pressure since that visit? Were you given a follow up visit and did you keep it?

Yes. They asked why I was there for the visit, and I told them because my pulse has been considered low. Not dangerous. Just lower then normal.

I have it checked every 2 months when I give blood, and other times in between when I feel like having one of those machines read it. Its never high. Always in normal if not even on the low side of normal.

Yep. They said fill the prescription and come back in a couple months and we will go from there. Threw the RX away and didnt go back to them.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Douglas

And youre missing my point. You are in the doctors office for lets say an hour, including the obligatory 30-35 min of waiting.

Doctor bills you for the visit. $220
Doctor bills you for the procedure. $164
Doctor bills you for the medicine. $250

So for an actual 20 min of time, most of with the nurse, you are billed $634

Not bad for 20-30 min of time. Now add that up through the day.

And using your numbers 20x18 a day but lets add a whole month. 22 days a month (figuring 30 days - the weekend) = $7920. Plus 20x22xoffice visits, plus 20x20x whatever else they do.

And there are few single doctor's offices. Those that are have what, a couple nurses and a billing person or 2? Most of these are clinics where theres 3-4 doctors on up.

And notice, im not talking about cutting back on the costs of his services or undercutting his prices for these things. Im saying where they are trying to over charge.

Maybe im a cheap bastard. Just like some are bashing Obama's plan because they would be forced to pay for procedures they dont believe in (like abortion), I dont believe I should be charged for medication going into someone else's body. And again, using your example, a 100% markup isnt horrible (at least in the numbers we are saying). But 1000%? Explains why there is a doctor in florida with a very niced sized boat named 'PIP MONEY'.

Most of us know about the margins involved regarding photography. I suspect very few, if any of us know about the margins in running a doctor's office.

Until I see a few P&L's from those offices, I'm withholding judgement.

I find your arguments especially ironic given the margins and history of profitability involved with insurance. I don't think there has ever been an industry that has had such a good record of profitability during down economic cycles as much as insurance.

The funny thing is that it's your JOB to make sure they maintain that profitability here. I hardly fault you for that. If it's paying the bills and you're relatively happy, I'm glad you're doing something you enjoy. But you're not exactly the most unbiased debater here.

[roncgizmo]

Originally Posted by Douglas

Yes. They asked why I was there for the visit, and I told them because my pulse has been considered low. Not dangerous. Just lower then normal.

I have it checked every 2 months when I give blood, and other times in between when I feel like having one of those machines read it. Its never high. Always in normal if not even on the low side of normal.

Yep. They said fill the prescription and come back in a couple months and we will go from there. Threw the RX away and didnt go back to them.

Douglas, I think you need to find a new Doctor...

Last time something like this happened to me (my BP was on the high side) They checked it 4 or 5 times to see if it was really that high. If you want to give this guy a try let me know. He's in Tampa around Waters & Dale Mabry.