I've had it with Fundys

[Rain Lily]

But Fran, I want to take as many as I can with me! (holding out hands for the cuffs...)

LOL

Y'all - I'm just playin with ya...I love you all, even those who might think because I'm a Christian, I'm a nutcase or trying to judge anyone else...let's all have a big group hug!

(LOL - j/k - I hate group hugs...)

[Johnny Perkka]

Originally Posted by patterfr

WHy does anyone feel the need to make fun of anyone else's beliefs or to make backhanded or snide remarks.

because its, well, fun... And it is such a huge thing that no one can (or should) really take it personally... It's like making fun of George W bush, he is a huge institution so he can take a few funny jokes... Like Jesus, he is a big institution too, and I bet he has a wonderfull sense of humor (at least I hope he does, otherwise I'm not gonna get along with him)...

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by patterfr

Why isn't it enough to let people believe what they believe.. WHy does anyone feel the need to make fun of anyone else's beliefs or to make backhanded or snide remarks. Surely one day we will all find out who was right and hopefully it won't be too late. Or maybe it won't matter. I believe that my beliefs are correct. So should you all. Let's not laugh at Christianity. Let's not put down what others think. In the end we wil see.

But is it okay one way and not another?

Seriously. I've found atheists/agnostics tend to be more open minded and less critical of those believing in God than vice versa. Why is that? Why are the people who claim to follow a religion that preaches tolerance and "love thy neighbor" MORE likely to hate gays, atheists, and others who don't fit their version of the good Christian?

I found it completely and totally ironic that the primary sponsors for the recent "marriage" propositions in several states (including CA and AZ) were Christian groups.

Tolerance, indeed.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Rain Lily

(LOL - j/k - I hate group hugs...)

Last time we did this, Lee copped a feel on my butt. Will you stand next to me this time?

[Johnny Perkka]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

Why are the people who claim to follow a religion that preaches tolerance and "love thy neighbor" MORE likely to hate gays

I think it's a closet thing, think about it, 13 guys wearing pyjamas in a desert... It sounds suspicious to me...

[patterfr]

Brian
I have found exactly the opposite. That agnostics/atheists are far more vocal against religion than are religious people against agnostics. That those that say they support free thought and free speech are usually those that actually would love it limited most.

Of course we could be hanging around different people.

Of course we are probably both biased.

[Johnny Perkka]

Originally Posted by patterfr

Brian
I have found exactly the opposite. That agnostics/atheists are far more vocal against religion than are religious people against agnostics. That those that say they support free thought and free speech are usually those that actually would love it limited most.

well yeah, the fundamentalist atheists... but they are crazy! seriously...

[patterfr]

Originally Posted by Johnny Heinonen

I think it's a closet thing, think about it, 13 guys wearing pyjamas in a desert... It sounds suspicious to me...

Johnny get serious or I may have to fly out to Finland and kick your ass

That's a joke for those of you that don't realize it.

[Pony]

You imply that those who choose to believe in themselves over a diety that one cannot prove exists simply cannot handle Christianity.{quote}jBrian Austin.

For some people that is the case.Alberts post is a classic example.He thinks any kind of faith outside of himself is ignorant.Other people may generally not know.Just as you will learn something next week you don't know now.I noticed in you response you didn't say God don't exist.
Your clearly saw in my post you can choose what you wish,and that choice is yours.I never implied you had to believe what I say.Incidently,Christ is more than bible character.Secular history records his life.

[Johnny Perkka]

Originally Posted by patterfr

Johnny get serious or I may have to fly out to Finland and kick your ass

That's a joke for those of you that don't realize it.

hehe, I'm glad you laughed

seriously though, you are right. The atheist are usually the loudest. They get too aggressive too easily, I think they are scared.

But the question is, IF the christians could, would they force us to believe? I mean:

Matt 28:19-20 “Discipleship”
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

that's the command he gave you, right?

[swampler]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

Seriously. I've found atheists/agnostics tend to be more open minded and less critical of those believing in God than vice versa. Why is that? Why are the people who claim to follow a religion that preaches tolerance and "love thy neighbor" MORE likely to hate gays, atheists, and others who don't fit their version of the good Christian?

I haven't found that. I think Christians don't like the lifestyles of the gays, atheists, etc, but don't dislike the people themselves.

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

But is it okay one way and not another?

Seriously. I've found atheists/agnostics tend to be more open minded and less critical of those believing in God than vice versa. Why is that? Why are the people who claim to follow a religion that preaches tolerance and "love thy neighbor" MORE likely to hate gays, atheists, and others who don't fit their version of the good Christian?

I found it completely and totally ironic that the primary sponsors for the recent "marriage" propositions in several states (including CA and AZ) were Christian groups.

Tolerance, indeed.

Brian - it makes me sad that you see this - I know you do, because I see it too. I'm telling you that though I am a conservative Christian, I have yet to hate anyone because of their beliefs. Does that mean I have to agree with them all? No, because I don't - but I hate no one.

What I think happens is that most "Christians" talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They follow Jesus in name only but not in practice. I'm not saying that I never mess up, because I do every day. But there's not a bit of hate in my heart for anyone. I can "love my neighbor" - the person - in spite of disagreements we may have in our belief systems. Isn't that tolerance?

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

Last time we did this, Lee copped a feel on my butt. Will you stand next to me this time?

LOL

[patterfr]

Johnny:

And they did.

Thank God.

But as I have said Bible Quotes are something that can seriously be argued in regards to interpretation for ages and by much smarter people than I.

[Johnny Perkka]

Originally Posted by Pony

Incidently,Christ is more than bible character.Secular history records his life.

exactly, that's what's great about muslims, they acknowledge his excistence, they just don't admit that he was a son of god... Then again, according to Littlegal, Jesusdoes not state he is the son of god until John says he is..

[Max@Home]

Serious question to the Christians:

is the NT a 'firmware upgrade' over the OT, or an add-on ?

Do the 10 commandments still stand ?

...€0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by Johnny Heinonen

hehe, I'm glad you laughed

seriously though, you are right. The atheist are usually the loudest. They get too aggressive too easily, I think they are scared.

But the question is, IF the christians could, would they force us to believe? I mean:

Matt 28:19-20 “Discipleship”
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

that's the command he gave you, right?

No - we wouldn't. Not Christians who "get it." It's always a matter of free will. Jesus is a gentleman and doesn't enter where he's not wanted.

Jesus said make disciples, not slaves.

[Johnny Perkka]

Originally Posted by patterfr

But as I have said Bible Quotes are something that can seriously be argued in regards to interpretation for ages and by much smarter people than I.

but that's the part I just don't get about you. If they can be argued, how can you base your life around them?

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by patterfr

Brian
I have found exactly the opposite. That agnostics/atheists are far more vocal against religion than are religious people against agnostics. That those that say they support free thought and free speech are usually those that actually would love it limited most.

Of course we could be hanging around different people.

Of course we are probably both biased.

We're not "probably" biased. We are. I don't care how objective anyone THINKS they are, there is always biased involved.

FWIW, I've studied various forms of Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, and a variety of other "religions" (although I'd classify some as lifestyles rather than true religions). I grew up as an agnostic among Christian Reformers where I wasn't allowed to mow the lawn on Sunday...but it was okay that the neighbor abused his wife any other day of the week (and everyone around us knew it). The black Baptists next door to me, who were looked down on due to their color, held my respect more than my white "Christian" neighbors.

I've had these conversations, one-on-one through many-on-many, with a variety of groups. In classrooms, coffee houses, and bars. There is something inherently wrong about discussing the virtues of Christianity with a drunk trying to pinch the waitress's bottom, btw.

I've met angry atheists and tolerant Christians. I'm just saying that, from my personal experience, a Christian is less likely to tolerate a gay, agnostic, or atheist than vice versa.

Today, I'm....unreadable. I can argue for your viewpoint or against it, in all honesty. I've lived both sides. I know where I sit in the grand scheme of things. That's all that really matters to ME. We're all selfish, whether we admit it or not, and in the end, what WE decide is between ourselves and the god we've chosen to believe....or no one.

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by Max@Home

Serious question to the Christians:

is the NT a 'firmware upgrade' over the OT, or an add-on ?

Do the 10 commandments still stand ?

...€0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

Actually, what I believe, is that it's one long continuous story.

And Jesus fulfilled the 10 commandments, he didn't get rid of them. And if the 2 greatest commandments were always followed, the 10 would fall into place. "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself."

Wouldn't that cover everything?