I've had it with Fundys

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Lee4145

I'd love to stay and play but I have a date with a meatball sandwich and several beers and some window shopping with my opponent.

That's right, Brian, at BJ's! Bring on the Nutty Brunette!!

Dammit. I gotta get one of your job. I've got 9 more RFPs due by the end of next week...

[Lee4145]

Crude sex is ALWAYS on topic Mojo! Just combine the two and talk about the relative merit of "missionary". Now I really gotta go. Have fun.

[Lee4145]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

Dammit. I gotta get one of your job. I've got 9 more RFPs due by the end of next week...

I took this week off, Brian. With the rain I've been off since last Monday! Woo Hoo! And my work is getting done while I'm gone.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Lee4145

Crude sex is ALWAYS on topic Mojo! Just combine the two and talk about the relative merit of "missionary". Now I really gotta go. Have fun.

That's a heck of a parting kiss....errr....never mind.

[Killjoy]

After this thread dies (while I admit, that may take a while) are we all going to be able to play and get along like before this thread got started?

What I mean is, are anyones views going to change the way that others think of them, and have it reflect in other postings?

[Rain Lily]

Killjoy, we've had worse "debates" than this and still we all love each other. One of my pet peeves is people who equate "disagreement" with "friendship" - I am totally on the other side of the fence from Walter, yet I'm cool with Walter...same with everybody.

No worries here, I think.

[k9ofkaos]

Originally Posted by Rain Lily

Killjoy, we've had worse "debates" than this and still we all love each other. One of my pet peeves is people who equate "disagreement" with "friendship" - I am totally on the other side of the fence from Walter, yet I'm cool with Walter...same with everybody.

No worries here, I think.

Bill (gaopa2) is a Georgia fan and I am still friends with him, so yeah what Sis said.

If we can disagree over football and still be friends, then religion ought to be a piece of cake.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Killjoy

After this thread dies (while I admit, that may take a while) are we all going to be able to play and get along like before this thread got started?

What I mean is, are anyones views going to change the way that others think of them, and have it reflect in other postings?

You people irritated me BEFORE this thread so I'm not sure how this really changes things...

[Johnny Perkka]

Originally Posted by Killjoy

After this thread dies (while I admit, that may take a while) are we all going to be able to play and get along like before this thread got started?

What I mean is, are anyones views going to change the way that others think of them, and have it reflect in other postings?

Originally Posted by Rain Lily

Killjoy, we've had worse "debates" than this and still we all love each other. One of my pet peeves is people who equate "disagreement" with "friendship" - I am totally on the other side of the fence from Walter, yet I'm cool with Walter...same with everybody.

No worries here, I think.

Actually, weird as it is, this thread brought the love and fun back to camel (at least for me). This proved that we CAN discuss serious things and still have a laugh about it at the same time...

[Pony]

Hi, Walter. Sorry you misinterpreted my PM to you.What I was describing was how man(the human race) was deceived at the beginning of time in the Garden in reference to a previous post by you.I really hope you won't slam all Christian because of a misinterpretation.


I do hope that we can be photo pals,though.

[Pony]

OT:
So uh,while we're all hanging out here,who's going to get New Years photo's?

[patterfr]

Originally Posted by Johnny Heinonen

Actually, weird as it is, this thread brought the love and fun back to camel (at least for me). This proved that we CAN discuss serious things and still have a laugh about it at the same time...

You mean we acted like adults ?

How unlike us!

But I agree with you .

[walter23]

Originally Posted by Killjoy

What I mean is, are anyones views going to change the way that others think of them, and have it reflect in other postings?

I harbour a deep suspicion of any christian who takes a literal interpretation of the bible's account of creation. (I hold no such grudge against the biblical-metaphor christians). Our worldviews are so fundamentally different that I'm not sure I can trust them to behave in what I'd consider our (or my, if you prefer) best interests should we ever find ourselves in a crisis together. The most obvious example: a war starts. The biblical literalist decides it's prophecized by revelation and so he waits to be saved, and perhaps even eggs on the war (perhaps believing he's fighting for Jesus, or perhaps just hoping to hasten the end) instead of working politically and socially to try to end the war. Think I'm making this up? A surprising number of people actually believe that kind of crap. Something like 45% of people in the USA believe a literal Rapture is coming, very likely in their lifetime, according to the last statistic I heard. I can't trust those people, at all.

Now I'm not going to paint all christians with that brush, but if you reveal yourself as a biblical literalist to me I'm never going to be able to fully trust you. If we seem to get along in other ways I can shelve my grudges for the sake of mutual cooperation; it's happened in the past. But a real friendship or connection requires a sense of deeper compatibility, and that implies a similar view of our place in the universe as that's a pretty fundamental part of what makes us ourselves.

[walter23]

Originally Posted by walter23

I can't trust those people, at all.

I also can't trust a lot of them to be good stewards of the environment. If God made everything and God is going to end it all, why should we care about keeping beautiful natural places unspoiled so that we can enjoy them in the future? None of that matters if your goal is to study the bible, accept Jesus Christ, and find your place in heaven.

Now I know a lot of christians who honestly love nature and would never mistreat it intentionally, but unfortunately a good number are too worried about the damned rapture to care what we do here and now to this rotten old earth that's doomed to fail in the end.

<deleted two redundant lines, the essence of which can be found in the previous post. Suck it up, edit whiners!>

[Pony]

Your using a totally hypothetic situation and trying to validate it with other suppositions.
Who do you think really wants wants war? Or to hear that family and friends lost their lives or were seriously injured?
As far as the rapture goes,don't you think those same people have concerns about family and friends and what will become of them? Do you really believe these people don't know how to love or care for others?

[k9ofkaos]

Originally Posted by walter23

but unfortunately a good number are too worried about the damned rapture to care what we do here and now to this rotten old earth that's doomed to fail in the end.

Only the premillenialists (concerning the rapture). Amillenialists don't hold that view although both can be literalists.

BTW: I believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, but I also believe we were given stewardship over the planet and are to treat it with dignity and respect. I don't like war either and certainly don't egg it on. Please I implore you not to confuse idiot radio preachers who claim everytime Israel starts shooting that it is leading up to Armageddon, to serious-minded loving caring Christian people who act out their faith on thew streets, in the market, and yes on message boards just like this one.

Walter don't avoid Christians because you have dissimilar worldviews. I have a deep deep love in my heart for the Japanese people since going there this past May. Their worldview is pretty foreign to me, but I still desire to be friends with them and understand how they think.

[walter23]

Originally Posted by Pony

Your using a totally hypothetic situation and trying to validate it with other suppositions.
Who do you think really wants wants war? Or to hear that family and friends lost their lives or were seriously injured?
As far as the rapture goes,don't you think those same people have concerns about family and friends and what will become of them? Do you really believe these people don't know how to love or care for others?

I'm just saying that should a situation arise that the believers interpret as Rapture I expect they'd act pretty irrationally, possibly in a way that would seriously endanger myself.

You guys are both right though; I shouldn't paint everybody with that brush (and I don't). I have christian friends and family members. In fact, we often have discussions much like this one. Complete with my blatently sacreligious accusations about worshipping a Cosmic Jewish Zombie

[Pony]

I also can't trust a lot of them to be good stewards of the environment. If God made everything and God is going to end it all, why should we care about keeping beautiful natural places unspoiled so that we can enjoy them in the future? None of that matters if your goal is to study the bible, accept Jesus Christ, and find your place in heaven.

Take a good look at this statement!-You can't trust Christians to be good stewards of the enviroment because you think Christians won't care be "God is going to end it all." -Well,if you don't know which ones you can trust,then you just won't trust any of them,huh?-Christians should be good stewards of all things.
What about non-Christians who do that? Can't trust them,either.

Sorry,Walter,wanted to put a smiley on my last post.

[walter23]

Originally Posted by Pony

Take a good look at this statement!-You can't trust Christians to be good stewards of the enviroment because you think Christians won't care be "God is going to end it all." -Well,if you don't know which ones you can trust,then you just won't trust any of them,huh?-

On some level that's true.

Christians should be good stewards of all things.
What about non-Christians who do that? Can't trust them,either.

There are many reasons to like or dislike people, or trust or distrust them. I consider "believing the bible is literally true" to simply be one of those reasons that I wouldn't necessarily trust someone. For this same reason, I wouldn't trust a McMillan-Bloedel executive to look after the forest, though there may in fact be individuals in the company who *do* care about preserving old growth forest and sustainable logging practices. Christianity, or McMillan-Bloedel Executive, or Satanist, just gives you a hint about someone's character.

I don't look at the world as "Christians" and "Everybody else". Christianity is just one character trait, which happens to turn me off if it is a strong enough trait in someone.

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by walter23

On some level that's true.

There are many reasons to like or dislike people, or trust or distrust them. I consider "believing the bible is literally true" to simply be one of those reasons that I wouldn't necessarily trust someone. For this same reason, I wouldn't trust a McMillan-Bloedel executive to look after the forest, though there may in fact be individuals in the company who *do* care about preserving old growth forest and sustainable logging practices. Christianity, or McMillan-Bloedel Executive, or Satanist, just gives you a hint about someone's character.

I don't look at the world as "Christians" and "Everybody else". Christianity is just one character trait, which happens to turn me off if it is a strong enough trait in someone.

I suppose I will just have to turn you off and be not trusted by you, Walter, because I believe literally in the Bible, in the creation account found there, and in the Rapture as well. Yet I would suspect that I am as good a steward of the earth as you, if not better. I would also say that whatever I think of a war, I have no power to bring on the Rapture any faster or slow it down.

But the biggest thing I see in your post is this - the huge guiding factor in my life is God, through what I believe is his word, the Bible. Yet because I say this, you have automatically categorized me and put me in the same box that you put everyone who calls themselves a Christian, rather than judging me for the things I say and do.

Isn't the shoe on the other foot? Aren't you doing the exact thing you despise in Christians? Judging someone because of their belief system?

Don't tell me it's because of what you see other "Christians" do or not do, or what's happened in history. If you are honest with me here, you will say that I deserve to be judged for myself.

If I thought like you, I would despise scientists because they believe in the theory of evolution. As far as evolution, I do see evolution going on around me, "survival of the fittest" and dominant genes and such (no scientist am I, please excuse the generalizations). But for the origin of any species? Nope. Don't buy it. But because you most likely do, should I not trust you? Trust doesn't enter into it here, but what does is, I'll take you for what you say, not just put you in my "scientist" box.

I hope I'm making myself clear here, sometimes I'm not the best at expressing what I mean.