Who likes Ron Paul here?

[Kerbouchard]

Originally Posted by Reeflections

Sorry, but I just can't keep my mouth shut.

I challenge you to the following:

Show me a link to this info that doesn't come from a blogger that copy & pasted it from another blogger, IOW, the actual FBI report that it is supposed to have come from.

If you can do that, I will apologize in large red font that ever doubted the statistics that you offer.

If you can't do that you should admit that you passed on info that wasn't true. And who is really pretending.

This is what echo chamber speak is all about. Just pass on bullshit info like it was so and eventually all of the "believers" will be saying the same thing - bullshit that it is.

.

Testimony | Heather Mac Donald: Immigration and the Alien Gang Epidemic: Problems and Solutions

I've looked around and can't find a complete source. It looks like information from several reports that was put together and has been floating around for a while now.

Here is the snopes report. snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

Looks like Snopes doesn't say the data isn't true, just that it doesn't seem to be from one comprehensive report from the FBI.

[Reeflections]

Originally Posted by Kerbouchard

I've looked around and can't find a complete source. It looks like information from several reports that was put together and has been floating around for a while now.

Here is the snopes report. snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

Looks like Snopes doesn't say the data isn't true, just that it doesn't seem to be from one comprehensive report from the FBI.

Looks like you went to the same places I did. So some of the info came from a rightwing think tank and the rest is unknown. But your quoted source say it was all from an FBI report that doesn't exist.

So, as snopes reports, it cannot be proved. These are not beniegn facts. These are the kinds of "facts" that stir people up and get published and republished on blogs - right and left - and it drives me crazy.

[wolfd]

But if its on the internet it must be true?

[dmthompson]

Originally Posted by Kerbouchard

Testimony | Heather Mac Donald: Immigration and the Alien Gang Epidemic: Problems and Solutions

I've looked around and can't find a complete source. It looks like information from several reports that was put together and has been floating around for a while now.

Here is the snopes report. snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

Looks like Snopes doesn't say the data isn't true, just that it doesn't seem to be from one comprehensive report from the FBI.

Originally Posted by Reeflections

Looks like you went to the same places I did. So some of the info came from a rightwing think tank and the rest is unknown. But your quoted source say it was all from an FBI report that doesn't exist.

So, as snopes reports, it cannot be proved. These are not beniegn facts. These are the kinds of "facts" that stir people up and get published and republished on blogs - right and left - and it drives me crazy.

Most of the illegals problems writen about are not documented facts only opinions. At the bottom of the Snopes report it concludes that illegals have a plus 25 billion effect on the economic. In other words a net gain.

Is there a problem with illegals? Yes, however to try to place almost all of the crime problems on illegals is nonsense. I grew up in Arizona. My dad homesteded there in 1910 so I know a little about the problem. Most of the problems come from the whites that come to Arizona and don't understand the ways of the Mexicans and think they know better.

Dwight

[Douglas]

Technically 100% of all illegals are criminals. Hence the term "illegals." Though what % of them are criminals beyond being in this country improperly is impossible to measure unless you know how many illegal residents there are.

Are there hard core criminals among them? Absolutely! Drug traffikers and dealers, murders, etc etc. But there are also men and women who are just here to make some money from back breaking hard labor. Those "stolen jobs" they occupy that so many Americans would line up for, if given the opportunity (yeah right. Ooh, a job that pays minimum wage where I stand in 90-100* heat for 12 hours or more a day and pick fruit and vegitables and hope I dont get bit or stung more then 4-5 times a day? Sign me up!)

[Douglas]

Oh and a couple people here really have told us their character.

[Kerbouchard]

I find it easier to judge the character of a man by determining whose money they want to use to support their pet projects.

Originally Posted by Douglas

Oh and a couple people here really have told us their character.

[Rick Waldroup]

Chill.

Perhaps partake of a bit of hash, maybe a small mushroom or two, let your mind wander and your soul relax.

I have come full circle. I was a peaceful stoner hippie. Then I became a radical, then a radical extremist.

Now, I am at peace again.

I only have a short way to go in this life.

I shall go out in a dream, on a cloud of smoke, in a daze of bliss.

I shall be set free....

"Golden" by Dave Ducharme-Jones (HD) - YouTube

"Golden" by Dave Ducharme-Jones (HD) - YouTube

Watch for the cool paintings at the end.

I am Golden.

I want all of you to be Golden, too.

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Kerbouchard

I find it easier to judge the character of a man by determining whose money they want to use to support their pet projects.

Yep. It all comes down to green paper that we somehow assign a value too. Thats all a life is, is its value in money. If you dont have a financial worth, you are in effect worthless. Is this really what we have progressed to? To use a Star Trek term, I guess we are evolving into the Ferengi. You are only worth as much as the revenue you generate. Pretty sad state if thats what humanity has become about.

[Reeflections]

Originally Posted by Douglas

But there are also men and women who are just here to make some money from back breaking hard labor. Those "stolen jobs" they occupy that so many Americans would line up for, if given the opportunity (yeah right. Ooh, a job that pays minimum wage where I stand in 90-100* heat for 12 hours or more a day and pick fruit and vegitables and hope I dont get bit or stung more then 4-5 times a day? Sign me up!)

So true. Just yesterday on NPR they were interviewing some of the farmers in Georgia that rely on migrant workers for their crops. Some of the new laws passed in that state that have scared away these laborers are bankrupting the farmers. They can't get anyone else to pick the crops. A surprise to me was that they (farmers) consider many of these jobs as skilled labor and the piecework pay adds up to $15-$17/hr when done by those that know how and work hard. Many local unemployed have tried to take their place but seldom last more than a day or two.

On the question of character, I give the highest marks to someone that travels hundreds of miles from home, risking their lives and freedom, to work their asses off to make money to try and make their poor family live a better life. I cannot honestly say I would have the cojones to do the same had I been born into their circumstance.

Imagine how well someone with that kind of work ethic would do if he were lucky enuf to be born to a middle class family in the U.S. or Canada.

Just out of high school I was hopping freight trains from California to New Orleans just to see what it was like and I got to spend some time with some of these people that were doing it because they had to. Many hours were spent wile riding a boxcar or sitting around a hobo campfire talking about "life." Like any group of humans, some were thieves and most were not. I learned to highly respect them and what they were doing for their families. So many smart - although uneducated - wonderful people taking on so much risk and labor knowing they would never have what I had just because of where I was born. They struggled everyday to just get a little closer to what I took for granted.

It can be so easy to write these humans off as creeps coming here to steal our jobs - as if we have earned the right to call them our jobs cuz we were "smart enuf" to be born here. Yeah, it's not our fault they don't make as much money as we do, but it sure ain't theirs either.

It seems some of us judge a person's character by how lucky they were, while others make that judgement based on what's in their hearts. Humanity is much better served by the latter.