Associated Press (AP) story from 2004

[Steven G Webb]

I'm not a birther, not affiliated with any political party and I am not an idiot. The insulting comments batted about here remind me of folks who fight fire, with fire. I believe the fire department uses water.

There is an allegation which at some level has an air of reason behind it that BHO does not meet the qualification under the US Constitution to hold the office of the President of the United States of America. Cited as justification for the allegations are an assortment of circumstantial elements, any one isolated from the rest construed as meaningless conjecture; but when combined gain a certain continuing theme. The AP story from 2004, a quote from BHO's own book, a video clip where his lips seem to make the words "I wasn't born in Hawaii", a discrepancy in the democratic party's certification that their candidate meets the constitutional requirements, a simple question about a birth certificate. Answering the simple questions about these little things might not be the mandatory response; however, an arrogant reply demeaning anyone who would ask isn't really appropriate.

Let's just say that anyone who would question Obama's qualification isn't intellectually deficient simply for asking. What's the harm in answering the questions and putting the question to rest? What benefit is there is skirting the issue or deflecting the question construing that even asking it is an implication of something sinister on the part of the questioner. Why perpetuate the suspicions? And, yes, refusing to answer the question then suggesting that there are more important things on your agenda, then continuing to comment that those who would ask are spending precious time on a non-issue, is itself wasting time on the same issue.

Consider too, just for a moment. What if there is credence to the assertion that BHO does not meet the constitutional requirements to hold the office of President? Wouldn't anyone in his shoes employ all manner of spin and deflection? If a person had nothing to hide, would he hide something? After all, if you are involved in a traffic stop you may be asked to give a police officer consent to search your vehicle. If you are reluctant to consent he will question and retort that if you had nothing to hide you had nothing to fear. So, if the president has nothing to hide, he has nothing to fear.

I don't know if BHO meets the qualifications to be President. I wish that I did know. I've no reason to think Donald Trump is a raving idiot. I'm not on either side of this issue I just wish the questions would be answered. I was once a peace officer. When asked by a suspect why he was being interviewed I told him, "If you don't want to appear suspect, don't do suspicious things". If BHO doesn't want controversy, he should avoid controversial activities.

[Rick Waldroup]

Also, for those who would condemn my language, let me tell you this. I speak the same language these nutjobs do, I speak their language. They understand the language of hate. This, they know. Trying to reason with insane, hate filled people is futile. This was Obama's problem. He actually thought he could reason with these lunatics. He actually thought he could reach out to these tea baggin bastards. What a stupendous mistake on his part.

So, to all of you losers, all of you racist, pathetic excuses for human beings, once again- kiss my ass. There, do you understand that?

[gryphonslair99]

Originally Posted by camrajoky

The certificate that was displayed was not an official Certificate of live birth.....but where in hell did you get the idea that if you are not following Obama in lock step that you are sounding like a racist. You are the one that brought that up.....it is politics....I guess that you are not allowed to question Obama simply because he is a man of Color. He is over all a politician, he is not above the law nor is anyone here saying he can not be President because he is a black man.
The idea that he has travels around the world bowing to other rulers and appauligizing for America being a place of success.....There is no pride in being American anymore.

Actually the certificate of live birth that was displayed WAS the official Certificate of Live Birth. That is the actual certificate that you get when you request a copy of your birth certificate in Hawaii. What was not displayed, but has also been verified was the Registry of Live Birth. THERE IS NO QUESTION HERE ABOUT THIS ISSUE except for those that do not have the sense that God gave a turnip. Obama was born in the US and is a United States Citizen. Get over it, move on, and get your S#%& organized or he is going to be in the White House for another 4 years.

[Rick Waldroup]

Originally Posted by gryphonslair99

Actually the certificate of live birth that was displayed WAS the official Certificate of Live Birth. That is the actual certificate that you get when you request a copy of your birth certificate in Hawaii. What was not displayed, but has also been verified was the Registry of Live Birth. THERE IS NO QUESTION HERE ABOUT THIS ISSUE except for those that do not have the sense that God gave a turnip. Obama was born in the US and is a United States Citizen. Get over it, move on, and get your S#%& organized or he is going to be in the White House for another 4 years.

Thank you, and once again, my friend, I am sorry, but I will never understand anyone that tries to reason with these nuts. It is an admirable venture, but one that is destined to fail because THEY ARE CRAZY....

[joekolero]

To all of those out there who voted for Obama just to avoid being a Racist.
You now need to vote for someone other than Obama just to avoid being an idiot.

Wow! That speaks volumes. One would have to be a racist even to conceive that the reason someone else voted for Obama was to prevent the appearance of racism. At least your imaginary voter had the good sense to be ashamed of their racism.

I take it you didn't vote for Obama in 08, so now you're left with the question what will you have to do to avoid being an idiot?

[kcarter2958]

Interesting responses here. But only one person felt the need to call anyone that raises the question part of the fruitcake squad, sonofabitches, lunatics, jerks, ignorant, racist assholes of the highest order, jackasses, nutjobs, insane hate-filled people, tea baggin bastards, right wing lunatics and pukes to be shunned. We have been told we are to kiss his ass and he concludes by sending his regards to us thusly; FUCK ‘EM.
Exactly what is it that you are so frightened by Rick? Is your case so weak that you must denigrate people and snuff out even the mention of the issue? Is casting the aspersion that we are all racists all you have when the facts fail you?
I do not know where Obama was born. I know there are questions about it and many people have concerns in this matter or we wouldn’t be discussing it on this forum. I also know that Obama and others on his behalf have claimed that there exists a document (the long form birth certificate with names, dates and signatures on it) in a vault in Hawaii that would once and forever clear up this matter. I know that when he has been asked to simply present this document he has refused and has spent several million dollars on lawyer’s fees to be sure that the document that will clear this matter up never gets shown. I know that I wonder about his reasons for this course of action. I know that it seems to me that a decent, honest man would do all he could to allay the fears of the citizens he leads and would not stall, obfuscate and prevaricate.
If I claimed that I could fly like Superman I am sure most everyone would not believe me. If I persisted in my claim I think most would, in fairly short order, ask me to demonstrate my unusual talent. If my answer was “I assure you that I can fly but I choose not to” most would arrive at the conclusion that I was lying and unable to do what I claimed originally. The birth certificate issue is as simple as this for me. If you have proof, show it or explain why you will not.
And if, as some have suggested, Obama hides the proof in order to keep this issue alive because it serves his political purposes then he is apparently OK with dividing the nation and playing politics with an important issue. This is somewhere far from where I think a true leader should be. And to those that claim the issue is just not that important I would point out that in many far less important matters we are all required to provide proof of age or residence. Denny’s asks for proof that it is really your birthday before giving you your free meal. It would seem to me that knowing the President of the United States is properly qualified to hold that office is somewhat more important than a $10 free meal.

[Rick Waldroup]

Originally Posted by kcarter2958

Interesting responses here. But only one person felt the need to call anyone that raises the question part of the fruitcake squad, sonofabitches, lunatics, jerks, ignorant, racist assholes of the highest order, jackasses, nutjobs, insane hate-filled people, tea baggin bastards, right wing lunatics and pukes to be shunned. We have been told we are to kiss his ass and he concludes by sending his regards to us thusly; FUCK ‘EM.
Exactly what is it that you are so frightened by Rick? Is your case so weak that you must denigrate people and snuff out even the mention of the issue? Is casting the aspersion that we are all racists all you have when the facts fail you?
I do not know where Obama was born. I know there are questions about it and many people have concerns in this matter or we wouldn’t be discussing it on this forum. I also know that Obama and others on his behalf have claimed that there exists a document (the long form birth certificate with names, dates and signatures on it) in a vault in Hawaii that would once and forever clear up this matter. I know that when he has been asked to simply present this document he has refused and has spent several million dollars on lawyer’s fees to be sure that the document that will clear this matter up never gets shown. I know that I wonder about his reasons for this course of action. I know that it seems to me that a decent, honest man would do all he could to allay the fears of the citizens he leads and would not stall, obfuscate and prevaricate.
If I claimed that I could fly like Superman I am sure most everyone would not believe me. If I persisted in my claim I think most would, in fairly short order, ask me to demonstrate my unusual talent. If my answer was “I assure you that I can fly but I choose not to” most would arrive at the conclusion that I was lying and unable to do what I claimed originally. The birth certificate issue is as simple as this for me. If you have proof, show it or explain why you will not.
And if, as some have suggested, Obama hides the proof in order to keep this issue alive because it serves his political purposes then he is apparently OK with dividing the nation and playing politics with an important issue. This is somewhere far from where I think a true leader should be. And to those that claim the issue is just not that important I would point out that in many far less important matters we are all required to provide proof of age or residence. Denny’s asks for proof that it is really your birthday before giving you your free meal. It would seem to me that knowing the President of the United States is properly qualified to hold that office is somewhat more important than a $10 free meal.

Yeah, sure, whatever.....

Your post proves my point, over and over and over and over and over.....

[gryphonslair99]

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_3.jpg

If the republican party want's to take back the Whitehouse they need to quit their stupid baseless claims, take a step away from the religious right and step back to the constitution and the people for which it represents and oust the left wing give the world away types.

[kcarter2958]

Wow! I am devastated by your in-depth thoughtful reply Rick. The way your rapier wit deconstructed all of my individual points and showed me to be wrong was so powerful that I have changed my mind.
But seriously, you will never broaden your knowledge if you keep your fingers firmly planted in your ears while shouting “nananananana” over and over and over and over and over.
You accuse others here of the inability to think or change their minds even if credible evidence were presented to them but it does seem to me that it is you and your ilk that will not and do not have the courage to look at things with sagacity.
I have said that I do not know which answer is correct in this case; born here or not? I am willing to accept the evidence and believe it if / when it is presented but I am also equally willing to be suspicious of someone that insists upon withholding evidence. This is not a court of law where a jury is instructed that they cannot infer guilt from a defendant’s refusal to testify. This is the court of public opinion and when someone claims to have proof of a point but also refuses to show it we are allowed to draw whatever conclusions we wish.

[emcintyre60]

Originally Posted by kcarter2958

I have said that I do not know which answer is correct in this case; born here or not? I am willing to accept the evidence and believe it if / when it is presented but I am also equally willing to be suspicious of someone that insists upon withholding evidence.

The birther arguments contain numerous logical fallacies, the most obvious of which is the faulty premise that evidence has not been presented concerning Obama's birth in Hawaii. The evidence is abundant: newspapers accounts, birth certificate, etc.; and yet there is this inexplicable insistence that Obama is "hiding" the evidence. Baffling.

The other logical fallacy is what is referred to as the "moving goalposts": which allows one to continue to deny something by arbitrarily moving the criteria for "proof" or acceptance out of range of whatever evidence currently exists. First, eveyone wanted to see the birth certificate. When that was produced, they wanted the "long form" (whatever that is); and when Hawaii certified that the form they produced is the official form; the birthers now want something more . . . though for the life of me I don't know what. What Obama produced was sufficient for his vetting into office in the first place. Was what he produced somehow less than what Bush produced? Do any of you even know what Bush produced.

Rick is right . . . there is just no reasoning with people who don't want to reason.