D200 Flash Sync v.s. Shutter Speeds

[Songman45]

I hate to be wearing eveyone out with questions. I don't think I'm overlooking this in the manual and I looked in previous posts. So here we go:

How do I force 1/250 sec shutter speed for fill? Everytime I pop up the flash it defaults to 1/60 sec. Naturally this is happening in Aperature priority mode. Do I have to change to Shutter speed or to Manual to get the faster sync speed?

Is it going to behave the same way with an SB800. No, I don't plan on using the pop-up flash it just seemed to come in handy for fill on a couple of shots. I was taken aback a little when it changed the combinaiton for a 60th.

Thanks in advance for the answers.

[tomrock]

There may be a better way around this but I've always used Manual.

[fintastic]

songman
you need to set it up in your menu,go to menu and on the left go down to the paper looking set, then scroll to flash sync speed.
I hope this helps
John

[Songman45]

Originally Posted by fintastic

songman
you need to set it up in your menu,go to menu and on the left go down to the paper looking set, then scroll to flash sync speed.
I hope this helps
John

Thanks John,

The sync speed is set to 1/250 there is another menu item that sets the minimum shutter speed for flash, the higest speed is 1/60th (who know's why?). Its apparent that in low light situations in any mode other than Manual the camera attempts to meter using that 1/60 as the slowest shutter speed then begins chipping away at the f-stop.

I think I understand the logic. The flash meets the need of the camera rather than the camera demanding the output of the flash. I just don't know that 3 stops of drop makes me the happiest cat in the land. Maybe it doesn't do this if the shutter speed is set to 1/250.

[Songman45]

Originally Posted by tomrock

There may be a better way around this but I've always used Manual.

Thank you Tomrock. I use manual too, with off camera units. I was just hoping I'd be able to pop the built in flash for a little splash of fill by tapping that handy little button.

[dsp]

Will Auto FP help in this case? I don't shoot a lot of stuff with flash, but I think auto FP will allow faster shutter speeds for fill. It should be an option in the sync speed menu. I may be way off, like I said, I hardly use flash...

[fintastic]

Songman
If your iso auto is off it will default to find the best pic.
go to menu , on the left drop down to the pages looking thing and set iso auto.
this will support aperture priority.
John

[Eero Makela]

On my D300 the speeds for the flash in the custom menu E2 shows 1/60 down to 30sec.
The help menu says that it applies to P and A modes.
I think the D200 is similar for these settings.

Hence I use Shutter Priority and Manual mostly.

I just tested it with SB800 and it also applies so no diff in built-in vs SB800

[physicsguy]

Songman45,

I am really puzzled about the problem you describe. When I test it on my own D200, in both A and S mode, when I pop up the internal flash the shutter speed remains unchanged. Checking both the Nikon manual and Thom Hogan's guide to the D200 there is no mention of the camera shifting the shutter speed down unless the setting for CSM e1 is set for a shutter speed less than 1/250. (I am assuming you have CSM e3 set to TTL) I simply cannot duplicate the problem on my camera. I can force the speed down by the e1 setting but if I leave it at 1/250 the shutter speed does not change when I pop up the flash unless it started higher than 1/250 (of course). If I exceed 1/250 in A mode, when the flash is flipped up, the camera reports overexposure, as it should since the aperture remains constant and the shutter speed decreases.

The curious behavior in spot metering should not cause the problem you are describing either. (For those not familiar with the effect I am referring to, in spot metering the the camera switches the internal flash from what Nikon calls balanced iTTL to ordinary iTTL. In other words, in matrix and center weighted AE the camera calculates the flash power to provide a balanced fill light for what it thinks is the subject balanced with the background exposure. Ordinary iTTL is calculated to provide the primary light for the subject without regard to the exposure for the background.)

The only other thing I can think of would have to do with the lens being used. If the lens is a non-CPU lens (something other than D, G, P, AF, AF-I, or AF-S) then the camera and flash drop out of iTTL behavior and go to simple TTL behavior. I would not expect that to cause the problem you are experiencing, but I am not at all familiar with what the camera will do in that situation. As you know, occassionally the D200 does some unexpected things.

The CSM e2 setting should not effect this. That setting establishes the lowest shutter speed the camera can set when it is in charge of setting shutter speed, in either the A or dreaded P mode. It does not make the camera go to that speed but prevents it from setting shutter speeds less than that.

I am afraid I have not been all that much help except that I know the camera can be set up so that it does not have the problem you are describing. I have not discovered how to duplicate it but there are ever so many settings one can make...

Dave

[Eero Makela]

In A mode my D300 set to E2 of 1/60 pop the flash and it switches to 1/60

Set E2 to 1/8 an pop the flash it goes to 1/8 as set in E2

This is in A mode

If I use S mode the shutter remains the same what ever you set it same as manual.

I think I figured it out. If you are in bright light before you pop up the flash it does not drop to 1/60. In low light before you pop up flash it sets to 1/60

[Songman45]

Thanks for the input. I got it figured out too. The camera seems to calculate for the exposure in reverse order than I do. It looks for the slow shutter speed in A or P but it will adjust the aperature and keep the faster speed in S. Just more stuff to learn.

[blumesan]

From my experience with my D200 in aperture priority mode: Without the flash the shutter speed is set based on the available ambient light. When the flash is popped up the shutter speed is still based on the available ambient light with the following restrictions: 1. Even with abundant ambient lighting the shutter speed will never be faster than 1/250 (and with plentiful ambient light overexposure may occur). 2. Regardless of how little ambient light is present the shutter speed will never be slower than 1/60 (or whatever faster speed you select in the menu). If the ambient light is such that the shutter speed falls between 1/60 and 1/250 with the flash inactive, the shutter speed will not change when the flash is activated. This behavior makes perfect sense to me.

There is no real need to force the shutter speed to 1/250 for fill flash; even 1/60 will work. But it will only function as fill light if there is sufficient ambient light to make an exposure at that speed without flash. As others have suggested, you can use manual mode or shutter priority to up the speed (no more than 1/250). Generally I use fill flash with Aperture priority as follows: Set the aperture to a value that gives you a shutter speed between 1/125 and 1/250. Pop the flash and go.



Cheers/Mike

[Montec]

It is just a safeguard that will not allow the shutter to drop below the speed you set in A mode. I set mine at 1/30 and know that it will not go below that and I will be able to hand hold the camera. 1/60 is the default.

[Songman45]

I still don't know why if I'm shooting a scene in A mode at a given f-stop and the camera, lets just say for this example, returns a shutter speed of 1/125. Just for a little something different, without moving the camera from my face, trip the flash release. Magic! The shutter speed falls to 1/60th and the flash output obviulsy is very low. Too bad there wasn't a slowest shutter setting of 1/250th. The simple soultion to this is to meter the shot, set the cam to manual and make the flash submit to you wishes rather than the camera bowing to the flash exposure demand.

[blumesan]

Originally Posted by Songman45

I still don't know why if I'm shooting a scene in A mode at a given f-stop and the camera, lets just say for this example, returns a shutter speed of 1/125. Just for a little something different, without moving the camera from my face, trip the flash release. Magic! The shutter speed falls to 1/60th and the flash output obviulsy is very low.

I have tried exactly the same test with my D200. In A mode with the camera metering 1/125 sec at a given aperture and the flash closed; when I pop the flash release the shutter speed remains unchanged. Don't know why your experience is different. Perhaps it has something to do with one of the menu settings, but I can't imagine which one. Perhaps try resetting to factory defaults.

Cheers/Mike