Problems with Shadows in background

[ladonna]

I have a Nikon D80, SB600 flash with flash extension, 18 -135 Lens, and Skylight filter.

I am experiencing shadows behind subject's head and body in both verticle and horizontal shoots. I stoop to their level to make sure that i am not tilting my camera. I use an "arm" or stroba frame so that my sb600 external flash can be on top of camera with verticle shoots. I still get a large shadow.
I normally shoot in aperture priority and my flash is set to ttl.

I have not learned yet much ABOUT shuttler. I only know that I would need a slow shutter speed if I am taking a picture of running water. (But I have no idea how slow the shuttle speed should be) I also know if I shooting sports, I need a fast shutter speed. Once again, I am not sure how faster.

I learned setting my camera in aperture priority for depth of field.

1. Does anyone know why I am getting shadows.

2. Does anyone know how I can better understand setting both aperture and shuttle speeds.

3. Does anyone know what I can set my camera to when taking pictures of black people. I am having a hard time. The skin tones seems to get darker.

4. Why do my pictures seems under exposed, I mean light. They are not vibrant, rich in color, contrasty.

4. When I take pictures of people, whether it's for weddings, parties, etc. i would love to transfer pictures to cd and print at the lab. However, I have had to lighten pictures up a great deal and ESPECIALLY WORK IN PHOTOSHOP IN SATURATION AND LEVELS TO GET SOME OF THE RED OUT.

[Nikonfreak]

Well... we'd have to see some of your images to know what you mean as far as photos seeming under exposed.

Proper exposure is always something different depending on what you're shooting and lighting conditions are at the time of the shot. I will say that many times with folks with darker skin, you need to open up the aperture anywhere from a 1/3 stop to 1/2 stop ... maybe more (my experience) ... you can also drop the shutter speed a little, say from 1/60 to 1/30 to allow a little more ambient light in if you don't want to adjust aperture. Of course, we're talking about being in manual mode here. Letting the camera make the decision is not going to serve you well here.

Before I say more, allow me to recommend two books ....

1- Understanding Exposure
2- Lighting - Magic and Science

both available from Amazon and both will give you everything you need to know about the above to begin developing your own style and techniques.

Now.... aperture priority is great when considering depth of field but you're still letting the camera make the decisions for you. For any exposure, there are 7 possible correct exposure settings. Knowing which of the seven possibilities is the one that gives you the exposure and look / feel you are looking for in the image you shot is the understanding you are looking for.

Next... flash... one of the most difficult things for photographers to get their minds and understanding around. First, if you are pointing the flash directly at the subject, you are going to create a shadow... a harsh one at that. Second of all, if you are only using one flash, shadows are difficult to eliminate completely, but you can soften them by bouncing the flash or taking it off camera to throw the shadow out of the frame when you take the shot.

Another alternative is to boost the ISO to a little higher level and lower the power on the flash (shooting in manual mode or AA) so that you use as minimal flash as possible but still get good results.

(lose the skylight filter by the way... want to know why? ... take the filter off your camera.... take a white piece of paper, place the skylight filter on the paper... voila... pink cast... it will exacerbate the "red" problem)...

Now the red problem can be for a number of reasons. We don't know what color mode you are in or what settings you are using on the camera as far as white balance and such...reddish casts can be for a number of reasons but usually it's a white balance issue.

Another factor is that the 18-135 is a slower lens. As you zoom out, the aperture closes down so you really need more light to get a shot. A constant f/2.8 aperture lens will help in this situation. A low cost alternative is either the 35 f/2 or a 50mm f/1.8 lens. these will allow you to open up the aperture and get a little more light into the scene... not to mention allow you greater creative depth by allowing for a shallower depth of field.

There's no short answer... there are literally entire books and courses on just using flash.... so, practice a lot.... use a vase or a teddy bear as a subject and try your flash and camera using different settings. It's digital... all you'll do is irritate a few electrons a bit ... no harm....


Julio

[Jeff Perry]

Ladonna, Julio has given you valuable advice. Strobes (or speedlights as Nikon likes to call them) are very bright especially when pointed directly at the subject. In addition to aiming the head up (or to the side) at an angle or even vertical, you might also explore adding a diffuser to help filter the light source and make the shadows less noticeable. There are a lot of different kinds on the market and they are not very expensive, and generally do a fair job of softening the strobe's output.

You might want ot post a articularly troublesome image and have others make some suggestions. There are few camera settings that can plague a photo shoot if not set correctly.

jeff

[ladonna]

Thanks for your immediate response- In regards to boosting the ISO to a little higher level and lower the power on the flash (shooting in manual mode or AA) so that you use as minimal flash as possible but still get good results, DO YOU MEAN DIAL THE ISO TO 600 INSTEAD OF MY NORMAL 400? AND HOW DO I LOWER THE POWER ON THE FLASH? DO YOU MEAN TO -.3 OR -.7 OR -1

Regarding the 18-135 is a slower lens. As you zoom out, the aperture closes down so you really need more light to get a shot. I HAVE STARTED BUMPING UP THE FLASH TO +.3 OR +-7.

i guess that I am a little frustrated. I purchased the arm to flip the flash for verticle pictures and still getting the shadows. I will try to lowering the flash when you answer me about how to lower the flash. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer in such detail.

[ladonna]

Thanks Jeff for your response all well.
Jeff, in regards to explore adding a diffuser to help filter the light source and make the shadows less noticeable. IS THE DIFFUSER THE PLASTER CAP THAT GOES ON TOP OF THE EXTERNAL FLASH, IF SO, i HAVE ONE ALREADY AND WAS TOLD TO ONLY USE IT WHEN TAKING PICTURE OF ONE PERSON AS OPPOSE TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE. I WAS GETTING DARK EDGES AT THE LEFE AND RIGHT SIDES OF THE PICTURES. My words in all caps only means my response to your response. I am not fusing or hollowering. (smile) Thanks in response for your help too.

[Songman45]

The shadows are a result of the light being cast on the subject, not the orientation of the camera. Vertical, horizontal, upside down. ... thats not going to affect the shadows. One thing that might help is to move your subjects away from whatever it is that is getting the shadow. If your subject is under exposed certainly reducing the output of the flash is not going to brighten the image. Again, posting an example of your troublesome picture would greatly increase your chances of getting help.

[Nikonfreak]

Originally Posted by ladonna

Thanks for your immediate response- In regards to boosting the ISO to a little higher level and lower the power on the flash (shooting in manual mode or AA) so that you use as minimal flash as possible but still get good results, DO YOU MEAN DIAL THE ISO TO 600 INSTEAD OF MY NORMAL 400? AND HOW DO I LOWER THE POWER ON THE FLASH? DO YOU MEAN TO -.3 OR -.7 OR -1

Regarding the 18-135 is a slower lens. As you zoom out, the aperture closes down so you really need more light to get a shot. I HAVE STARTED BUMPING UP THE FLASH TO +.3 OR +-7.

i guess that I am a little frustrated. I purchased the arm to flip the flash for verticle pictures and still getting the shadows. I will try to lowering the flash when you answer me about how to lower the flash. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer in such detail.

Bumping the flash exposure will give you a better exposure if you're bouncing the flash, but again... a flash is harsh light (the smaller the light source, the harsher it is) and when it's mounted on the hot shoe of a camera, it's meant for basic, primary illumination (for the most part...I'm not getting into the CLS here at the moment). You can mask that harshness to some degree by bouncing the flash (turn the head of the flash so it's pointing at the ceiling...you are then illuminating the room around the subject and thereby causing shadows to fall more softly and in a different direction.)

The head on the SB600 tilts and rotates. there's a button on the side that unlocks the head so that you can shift it's direction. There was probably a little guide that came with the flash to give you some basic direction in the different ways you can use the SB600.... It gave some examples with photo illustrations on the use of the flash and the different ways light is cast from the flash.

Here's a link to the electronic version of the flash guide on Nikon's web site. This is for the SB600, which is the one you said you have...

http://www.nikonusa.com/Assets/Commo...peedlights.pdf

You can reasonably bump the ISO to 640 or 800 with little image degradation so long as you expose the image correctly. If you underexpose however, noise will creep in.

Let me try to simplify your basic problem here and why the shadows are there.

You have a light source and a wall. The light is pointing at a wall. Whatever you stick in between the light and the wall will cast its shadow in the direction the light is pointing.

So what do we do as photographers? We play tricks with the light. We redirect it. So we point the light at the ceiling. Now the shadows are falling on the floor... it's not in your picture anymore, but you've lost some of the intensity of the light. (pardon my really simplifying this but if you get the basic concept... you'll be able to do the math that goes along with it later.)
Making a light source bigger will also soften it. (That's why we use nice big umbrellas or softboxes... and this is why bouncing a light on a nice white ceiling will give a softer, pleasing light kind of look) Remember... whatever colors are on walls will reflect so choose your bounce carefully.... a yellow wall will reflect yellow...etc..

I have 2 SB 800 flash units and a couple of Metz flash units for shoe mounts. (one Metz is a handle mount ..the 45 CL-4).... but here's the thing... you really want to rotate the flash head. Take a look at the Nikon guide and you'll get the idea of what to do. You can leave the flash in TTL mode or you can go to AA mode. I prefer AA mode for the most part, but occasionally I'll use TTL. I rarely use TTL BL mode.

I really like the Metz units... the 58 AF-1 as it's an old school flash that works really really well in "A" mode.

Don't worry about adjusting the power on the flash. When I said that, I meant that the flash would not need to fire with as much intensity if you are shooting at a higher ISO. It'll do the work in TTL or AA mode.

You need to spend some time with the gear in front of a static subject and practice using various modes to know and understand what the camera is doing, but you really need to gain a good understanding of exposure first before jumping into flash use ... otherwise you will get frustrated very quickly as I'm sure you've seen so far. It takes some time and a bit of practice to understand what's going on with flash photography. there is no quick solution... you just have to learn it if you want to do anything other than Program Auto mode.

You have to understand exposure well enough to know what the camera is doing first and then you have to understand flash enough to know what the camera is doing when it has a flash mounted on top and the flash so that you understand what its doing.

Julio

[Jeff Perry]

ladonna, the little square "diffuser" like the Sto-Fen in my opinion is only marginally helpful. Nikon actually supplies one with the SB-800 (I didn't get one from Nikon with the SB-600, nor did it come with a case), but the SB-800 diffuser is to only be used with wide angle shots as I recall. When mounted on the 800 it actually depresses a little switch that makes some internal adjustments in the flash signaling that the diffuser has been added.

I prefer Gary Fong's diffuser. He has several different kinds. The really re-direct and spread the light, especially in a room (as opposed to out doors where there is little chance to bounce light around).

Try googling Gary Fong and also Lumiquest. They make one (or more, too) but I havn't tried those.

If you go on-line to Adorama or B&H Photo, and search for the diffuser you'll probably see a bunch of hits.

Jeff

[ladonna]

Thanks for all comments. Here is a link to my pictures:

LaDonna Smith Photography

I shot a wedding this weekend; not pleased at all. Fortunately for me, weather got bad, lights went out at the reception-thank God. AND the large civic center did not have a back-up generator. My guess was that my pictures would only have gotten worst with the groups shots which is why I say "thank God."

I shot a wedding in February and May of this year with the Digital Nikon D80. Pictures were Great. But Everytime I take pictures in this large Civic Center, I have problems with lighting.

I have a trial account with zenfolio and photobucket account, but I am too scared that my clients or perspective clients might see the wedding horrible pictures from this past weekend. I have not had a chance to retouch them in photoshop 7 or Elements 5 yet.

This wedding party consisted of 12 bridesmaids. I will post some of the pictures, but I did not see a paperclip to attach the pics. Again, I do not want to post wedding pictures to zenfolio to get the direct link.

I am shooting a wedding this coming weekend with 24 bridesmaids. I am scared to death. I may go back to shooting my Minolta film camera. Please do not offer suggestions such as DON'T shoot the wedding. I have already signed a contract.

I will however welcome suggestions on how to post pictures so you can see them and suggetions as to what may have gone wrong.

Thanks again.

[ladonna]

Please see pictures below that I have posted. I finally located the paperclip. The pictures are small and somewhat out of focused. i lowered the resolution to 72. However, please see quality of image, the the brownish background during the wedding ceremony.
I did take some pictures in the dark when the lights went off at the reception. Any suggestions as to what went wrong or what I can do to prevent this problem. As stated above, this wedding consisted of 12 bridesmaids; however, I have signed a contract to shot a wedding this coming weekend.

Although my contract says that I can not guarantee any photos, I try my best to do an excellent job.

Nikon D80, SB600 external flash, ISO 400

[Jeff Perry]

Ladonna, is the upcoming venue the same (or similar) conditions as this last one? Daytime or evening? Those types of venues with seemingly endles spaces behind your subjects are very difficult to light. Any chance for outside (natural light) shots?

Shooting a group the size you are going to be dealing with may simply be beyond the reach of a single speedlight.

If you must shoot indoors, do you have access to any studio lights, e.g., renting them for this occasion?

Jeff

[Nikonfreak]

Ladonna

I have to say that when you are in a large venue like that, Jeff is right, you can't rely on a single SB600 flash. My gosh.. imagine if that flash died for whatever reason. At the very least, you'd want to shoot two Sb800's, preferably into umbrellas to broaden the light source and I think that'd probably either not cut it or barely cover it.

A Metz 45 CL-4 is one I've used off camera at weddings for a small group and managed, but many times I'll set up studio strobes with umbrellas for bridal and bridal party shots. I don't do many weddings but when I do, studio strobes come along as do 2 SB800's, at least 2 photographers with 2 camera bodies each and 2 SB800's each (at least)... my Metz45 CL-4 comes along with two extra batteries and a Metz 58 AF-1 as a backup. My partner likes his Quantum Q-flash with turbo battery on his main camera rig with a bracket..

I've even gone to setting up studio strobes at the reception hall around the dance floor on pocket wizard triggers so I can get some additional illumination and ambient illumination around the dance floor...

Eg... couple's first dance... it's nice to have some shots with the crowd reaction to the first dance in them as opposed to strong flash on the couple and black in the background.

Julio

[Jeff Perry]

Ladonna, a couple of months ago my girlfriend and I had the opportunity to assist a friend with photographing his neice's wedding. Me armed with a D300/SB800 combo and my girlfriend with a D80/SB600 combo. Our had D2x/SB800, and another photgrapher friend of his toted a D3.

The wedding ceremony was outside at sundown. Reception was moved in to a large white-roofed event tent, with white side panels dropped down.

My friend set up two SB800 strobes on stands, first outisde for formal pictures (I shot ceremony pictures with a strobe for fill). He then moved the stands/strobes inside aiming them "backwards/upwards" into the ceiling of the tent. All the cameras and strobes were set to wireless remote/slave settings, and we fired away. Every time anyone fired thier camera mounted strobe, the remote strobes went off as well and the entire scene was bathed in light.

I have never had so much fun and so much success. During about four hours of shooting we had to replace batteries in the camera mounted and the remote strobes because of the number of shots being fired off. Rarely two shots in close sequence fooled the meters or failed to fire the strobe due to recycle time, but only a few misses considering the hundreds of shots fired.

Its all about the venue. If you haven't done so already, scout out the wedding and reception location to get a thorough understanding of the challenges and opportunities, and look for possibile shoot set-ups that work for the equipment you have at your disposal. Take an assistant and test fire some shots to get some settings in mind.

While a few candid/spontaneous "flash-blinding" snapshots are fine while covering the reception, what you don't want to end up with is an entire batch of poorly exposed formal ceremony and/or portrait shots.

Jeff

[ladonna]

Thanks again for your response. Please see the attached picture. I shot this picture with flash SB600.

I do have 2 umbrellas and lights. However, I normally break down a group as large as this. I am just concerned about the brownish tint in the background. I do a lot of practicing and read. I read that when the overall scene is dark, I may need a long exposure at a lare aperture and high ISO setting.