Is the Kiev-60 SLR good?

[spystyle]

I like your Iskra

As for me the OP, I ended up sending the Kiev-60 back to Mikail and Olga, strangely it had a bad odor. I got a funky Yashica for free but it needs a CLR :



Have fun
Craig

[DVDM]

Hello Craig
Don't try to use standard 1,5V battery. You can kill exponometer.
Regards

[Zardoz17]

DVDM, he won't have to worry about that, no exposure meter. I just got the Yashica A
in the mail today with the same lens, (yours looks like it might be the D). Post some pics
when you get it CLA'd, Craig! ;o)

[DVDM]

Wow ! Yes =) I just thought it's 124G like mine =) Sorry !

[Zardoz17]

Originally Posted by DVDM

Wow ! Yes =) I just thought it's 124G like mine =) Sorry !

DVDM, s'okay, no biggie. Craig, I have extra lens covers for the Bay 1 on
your camera if you need them. They don't fit the A...

[ulrauko]

DVDM - I used yashikamat 124g for 2 years with 1.5 battery. nothing bad happened to my meter. I know about this theory, but in normal lightning conditions (i.e. daytime) it will not matter. In the nighttime I wouldn't use slide film anyway - digital is better for the night, IMO.

Craig, good luck with yashika, they make good pictures, especially when used with tripod
Yashica Mat 124G - a set on Flickr

Zardoz - I'm waiting for bessa I to arrive this evening. Hope it'll be in good condition

[DVDM]

I have checked this theory at camera service. After 1 month using 1,5V battery we got -1,5 stops deviation

[Ed Shapiro]

Russian cameras are strange to say the least. Look at it this way, when the Soviet Union was intact under Communist rule, there was little or no competition in the consumer market in all industries. Items made in Russia and many of the Communist Block or Warsaw Pact Nations were sub-standard- Remember the Lada!

Not that there was a lack of good engineering or manufacturing in Russia- they made lots of military equipment, all built like "brick outhouses" - hey look at the AK-47 and that jumbo aircraft of theirs that can probably ship Red Square to Hoboken, New Jersey in one trip. On consumer goods, however, their was a lot of poorly finished stuff including cameras.

Coincidently enough, in the 1970s my studio was located in the same building as the showroom of the Russian Trade Consulate to Canada where all kinds of stuff was on display. I went in and had a had a look at the cameras. Theses was a Zenit, it seemed to be well built but some of the controlls were so badly machined that one could cut one's fingers trying yo focus or set the aperture on the lens barrel. The prisms did not cover the viewfinder screen and fell of badly in the corners. The shutter sounded like a jackhammer. I was not impressed but I must say that if I purchased that camera, it could easily double as a hammer or a deadly weapon.

There was a funny little panoramic camera with a good sharp lens that WAS rather impressive for the price. Interestingly, there was a guy in New York who was importing Russian 6x6 Cameras like hotcakes and bringing them up to snuff by tightening things up and cleaning up some of the intrinsic defects. He sold them as "poor man's Hasselblads" at a nominal price. The bad prisms fit real Hasselblads but the backs were kinda like the old 1600 series backs and did not fit any of the blad "C" models.

Anyone remember the Krasnogorsk? There will be a quiz at the end of the New Year!

Oh- There is no "big fuss" about medium format except many of the MF cameras and lenses was considered the "gold standard" for general and professional photography for decades. The Russian stuff, however, is not indicative of the general quality of great MF gear. If you want to understand what this precision equipment was like you have to wrap your hands around a Linhoff Press 70, A Mamiya 23 RF camera, a Rolleiflex TLR with a Xenotar lens or a Koni-Omega Rapid RF camera. Many of theses camera were industry work-horse standards for at least a quarter century. Many Hasselblad and Mamiya RB owners (like me) have digitized their MF gear and are getting incredible results.

Ed

[ulrauko]

Ed, I disagree with you. Not because I'm russian, but because lot's of russian cameras and lenses are still used outside eastern Europe. I agree that our stuff had spotty quality control, but optically russian lenses are as good as german sometimes. Another question - what american cameras were as popular outside states, as zenit and zorky were? kodak brownie? what about second half of 20 century? btw, zenit really suck, but zorki and kiev are really good.

[DVDM]

Argus were real American cameras, but it was not good for use until they began to order them from Germany =) Anyways where's Argus or Kodak cameras now ? And yes, I don't know available lenses from that companies. But I know very well Helios, Vega, Kaleinar - all of them are still popular. But Russian cameras are really pain in the ass ! It's for fans only =)

Need to say that it's not a good time to argue about Russian or American cameras =) Now both our countries can't do not only cameras but even TVs, radios, coffee machines and vacuum-cleaners =) You know who can =)

Welcome to global crisis =)))

Originally Posted by ulrauko

Ed, I disagree with you. Not because I'm russian, but because lot's of russian cameras and lenses are still used outside eastern Europe. I agree that our stuff had spotty quality control, but optically russian lenses are as good as german sometimes. Another question - what american cameras were as popular outside states, as zenit and zorky were? kodak brownie? what about second half of 20 century? btw, zenit really suck, but zorki and kiev are really good.

[DVDM]

Partially agree. But I changed my Hassy for Bronica and is very glad =)

[Ed Shapiro]

Having a heated argument about this is really unnecessary and perhaps I am misunderstood as per my last post in this thread. Y'all see..I love all kinds of image making equipment; old, new good, bad. near misses and disasters. As a full time professional photographer for over 50 years, I have to look at things from a professional point of view. When I am out on a job, I can't afford any quirks or oddities in a camera. I have to know that everything is going to work because I HAVE to bring back good results no matter what. If Russian cameras of yesteryear may have had good design but poor quality control, I could take no chances and had to use gear that was/is time tested and works all the time. I have to carry spare equipment on every job as well because even the best of equipment can fail.

There were a bunch of East German cameras that were nicely designed, but again the were known for poor quality control. Nowadays some of them are back on the market and have improved. There were sharp lenses marked "Zeiss Janar" that were manufactured to good standards and used the Tessar formulas. Remember names like Practika, Practina, Exa and Exacta- theses were cool cameras, but again, many of the suffered from poor quality control durring the communist era in East Germany.

As far as Argus is concerned, they made the C-3 which was the most sold camera in the U.S-. ever! It was well built and allowed photographers on a limited budget to get into those great Kodachrome slides. They were the official camera for many boards of education for use in the schools, the Scouts and so many other organization involving young people. The C-4 was a little more "pretty" in its industrial design. Kodak had a truck load of American built cameras in the 1940s through the 1960s. There was the Medalist- made like a brick outhouse and used by the U.S. Army as a combat camera- it was a 6x6 (cm.) range-finder 620 job with the razor sharp Kodak Ektar lens. Other popular models were the Pony, Chevron and the rebound Retina which was made by Kodak Germany with the Schneider Xenar lens. The first Hasselblads had Ektar lenses! As time went on Kodak tended to slowly but surely discontinue its advance amateur and professional cameras which all gave way to point and shoot Brownie, Insatmatic and other such models.
In the end, it was disposable cameras.

There were dozens of brand name cameras and lighting manufactures in the United States- Bosly, Argus. Ansco, Graphlex, Ciro, Omega ( by Simmon Brothers), De Jour, Revere, Realist (David White Optical) 3-D cameras, Bush, Burke & James, Balda, Ascor, Hico, Strobo-Research, Kalart, Mendelshon flash, Mighty Light, Hiland and many many more.

Germany (West- in the old days) had a truckload as well; Zeiss Ikon, Contaflex, Bauer, Braun-Hobby, Ultrablitz, Voightlander, Rollei 35, Rollei-Light and many good consumer grade cameras.
In those days, German cameras and equipment, especially lenses, were considered to be the gold standard.

So what's left? In the U.S- there is less than a handful of custom made cameras, a few decent heavy duty flash units and a few accessories. In Germany- a few top-of-the-line lens manufacturers, Lica and Linhoff and a few view camera manufacturers are still around with outrageously priced but great gear.

Even the UK had a few good cameras and flash units- all that is left is Bowens Flash gear and perhaps one other- forgot the name Perhaps Clive-Courtney?

After the U.S. occupation of Japan was over the Japaneses camera industry began to emerge- it was around 1956 when their cameras and lenses were no longer considered as "junk" and cheap copy-cat products. A few patent lawsuits occurred between Yashica and Rollei but, to make a long story short, the Japaneses took over the photo/optical market and most of the aforementioned manufacturers vanished from the scene. Cheaper labor and decent products at lower prices prevailed .

Well friends, history is about to repeat itself and now many Japaneses manufacturers are outsourcing their work to our old friends in China. It is now just a matter of time before many of our favorite current makes succumb to the pressure. Manufacture of our favorite brands may vanish or bare the engraving- "Made in the People's Republic of China". If we need bombs, we can import the from out traditional friends in North Korea!

By the way- I am of Russian background- My grandparents all came from there except one Grandmother who came from Poland. I was born in the United States and I am a citizen of the U.S. and Canada. I am not a camera collector but in my long career, I have either owned, seen or had knowledge of many of the aforementioned cameras and then some. I loved them all but I stick to the ones that work- no prejudice!

My main argument, if there is any argument at all worth mentioning is that if someone wants to get into high quality traditional medium format photography. a Yashica Mat, A, or LM or a Russian product of the Soviet era is not a classic or indicative of an era of precision equipment that preformed all the time with little or no failure or compromises in quality.

If you are a hobbyist and want to have fun with old cameras. more power to you. Besides, it is the photographer who creates great photographs not the camera. I have seen great images come out of the most obscure equipment and cameras that some photographers would not be caught dead with- it's really a matter of talent and imagination. I know many Lica, Hasselblad and top-of-the lined DSLRs who blame their gear for bad results. What do they say about the inapt carpenter. There are many people who will say "he or she takes good pictures because he or she has a good camera". All I know is that a master chef can cook a gourmet meal in an old tin can but I can poison the entire neighborhood with the greatest set of cookware in the world.

I am not a big drinker but let me raise a glass of real Russian Vodka and make a toast to y'all- have a great and successful 2010. Hey- do I know my old cameras, or what? Well- when you are as old as me you will have those fond memories too.

Ed

[DVDM]

Thank You, Ed !!! Happy New Year ! Wish you best luck ! =)
Read you with real pleasure =)
BTW I have no Russian cameras, only one Helios 44M lens - I use it with adapter on my Canon =)

[michael-gray]

Hello.
I purchased a Kiev60 a while ago and to be honest all the lenses are really sharp but the camera went wrong within days. As I liked the method of use much like a 35 camera I decided to go for the Arax body. This worked fine for about a year and then the problems started. The film spacing became uneven and the film does not lay flat and uneven focus happens at different points across the negative.
I have decided to forget this camera and use my Mamiyas, much better made.
Michael.
Michael-Gray-black-and-white-photography

[Darrell Larose]

The only issue I would have with cameras like the Kiev would be lack of a leaf shutter. I recall flash sync on that beast is 1/30 sec, which can result in ambient light affecting your flash shots, like unintentional shutter dragging. Leaf shutter or in lens shutters can give a higher flash sync speed in M-F cameras. The camera has been around a long time, originally as the Pentacon 6, and the re-fitted and improved Exacta that had West German Schneider glass, but the Ukraine lenses would fit too.

These cameras do have a reputation to jam if you try to work too fast, so wind carefully..

Darrell Larose
Ottawa