Shen-Hao 4x5

[dot-borg]

Anyone have any experience with Shen-Hao 4x5 field cameras? If so, can you share your opinion?

[Latinbob]

I have one. It is very well-made. I chose it over the Tachihara because it has full tilt, swing and rise on the back and front. I did change out the stock ground glass for a Fresnel screen, which makes focusing a little easier. I think for the price, it is a nice, folding field camera. Is there anything specific you are wanting to know about it? If so, let me know and I'll tell you what I know!

Bob

[dot-borg]

Thanks Bob. I'm curious about the quality of construction, since the price is so reasonable, and their usability as well. Also, I'd like to know about the differences between the TZ and HZ models.

[Latinbob]

The only difference I can see between the TZ and HZ models is that the TZ has aluminum alloy hardware and the HZ has black stainless steel. As far as build-quality, is appears to be hand-made. The fit and finish are excellent and all the controls on mine operate smoothly. Here is a link to a review of the Shen-Hao on Large Format Cameras. I agree with everything that the author says about the camera. For the price, it is a heck of a deal.

Bob

[walter23]

Originally Posted by dot-borg

Anyone have any experience with Shen-Hao 4x5 field cameras? If so, can you share your opinion?

Yeah, only buy it if you want the lowest price field camera with the most movements and the easiest use of wide angle lenses.

In other words, it's great.

[walter23]

I think there are some differences in the movements on the TZ. If I recall right the HZ has more movements but the TZ offers slightly more elegant movement mechanisms. The HZ works great though.

At the time that I bought mine the HZX45-IIA was the only one available (ignoring the weird non-folding wide angle cameras, etc). If I were buying today I'd still get the HZX45-IIA.

Originally Posted by Latinbob

The only difference I can see between the TZ and HZ models is that the TZ has aluminum alloy hardware and the HZ has black stainless steel. As far as build-quality, is appears to be hand-made. The fit and finish are excellent and all the controls on mine operate smoothly. Here is a link to a review of the Shen-Hao on Large Format Cameras. I agree with everything that the author says about the camera. For the price, it is a heck of a deal.

Bob

[dot-borg]

Originally Posted by walter23

I think there are some differences in the movements on the TZ. If I recall right the HZ has more movements but the TZ offers slightly more elegant movement mechanisms. The HZ works great though.

The TZ is absolutely beautiful and is only $80 more, so I figured that I would get as much information about both models before I committed to buying one.

[walter23]

Is it the TZ45 II A or II B that you're thinking about?

Anyway you lose a bit of shift, and some movements on the rear, with the TZ. These aren't too serious limitations, but a bigger one might be bellows. The TZIIA has a 110mm minimum bellows - that means the 90mm (most common wide angle) can't be used on it, I'd assume. The other TZ (IIB) which is probably the one you'd be thinking about goes down to 75mm... still more than the 50mm of the HZX45IIA (which would let you use a 65mm lens or shorter). You may not be interested in wide angle lenses, or you may feel that 90 (and maybe 75?) on the TZIIB would be good enough.

But the HZX45IIA is more capable. The TZ is just more elegant and addresses some of the petty annoyances with the HZ - by removing them entirely! (ie the rear shift feature, which is ample, but is locked by the same mechanism that locks the rear swing... although there is a zero detent).

One thing I'd be interested in is whether or not the TZ resolves the internal flare issue of the HZ. In some conditions you can get a reflection from the metal bellows frame just inside the rear of the camera which gives some flare on your image. It could be resolved with a compendium hood, or with some flat matte black paint (it's glossy on mine!). It rarely ever effects me so I haven't bothered, but I do have two images where it bothered me.

[dot-borg]

Originally Posted by walter23

Is it the TZ45 II A or II B that you're thinking about?

The TZ45-IIB. I don't think the TZ45-IIA is even sold here.

Originally Posted by walter23

Anyway you lose a bit of shift, and some movements on the rear, with the TZ. These aren't too serious limitations, but a bigger one might be bellows. The TZIIA has a 110mm minimum bellows - that means the 90mm (most common wide angle) can't be used on it, I'd assume. The other TZ (IIB) which is probably the one you'd be thinking about goes down to 75mm... still more than the 50mm of the HZX45IIA (which would let you use a 65mm lens or shorter). You may not be interested in wide angle lenses, or you may feel that 90 (and maybe 75?) on the TZIIB would be good enough.

But the HZX45IIA is more capable. The TZ is just more elegant and addresses some of the petty annoyances with the HZ - by removing them entirely! (ie the rear shift feature, which is ample, but is locked by the same mechanism that locks the rear swing... although there is a zero detent).

I'm certainly leaning toward the HZX45-IIA.

Originally Posted by walter23

One thing I'd be interested in is whether or not the TZ resolves the internal flare issue of the HZ. In some conditions you can get a reflection from the metal bellows frame just inside the rear of the camera which gives some flare on your image. It could be resolved with a compendium hood, or with some flat matte black paint (it's glossy on mine!). It rarely ever effects me so I haven't bothered, but I do have two images where it bothered me.

I think that I would very likely just paint it straight away.

[walter23]

The other thing you should know about the HZ is that it may be necessary to add a spacer washer into the rear lockdown mechanism to make it lock up tight. The other option is to move the lever handle to a secondary location which lets you move the lock-down mechanism further (thus locking it tightly).... but the disadvantage that comes from doing that is that then the handle will then stick out awkwardly when the camera is locked down for transport (which is really no good at all). This is probably the main reason for the camera redesign. It's kind of a weird mechanism. But it works well once you install a new spacer, and it gives you a lot of movement that you'd otherwise not have (and I have used it, though not often).

They may come with this resolved now - or you could ask badger graphic to do it for you if you're buying from them - they know about the issue and advised me on how to resolve it when I got mine.

Not trying to turn you off here - the shen hao has been a favorite of many good photographers for a long time. And if I had the choice to do a straight trade free of charge for the TZ I'd keep mine

[Brooks]

As I remember, the biggest issue with the Shen-Hao view cameras was the lack of bellows extension when using longer focal length lenses and/or close-up focusing.

[walter23]

Originally Posted by Brooks

As I remember, the biggest issue with the Shen-Hao view cameras was the lack of bellows extension when using longer focal length lenses and/or close-up focusing.

Yes, but that's an issue with a lot of the field cameras out there.

You can get longer extension out of Linhof or Ebony cameras (which new will run you in excess of $3000).

Monorails are a different story, but those aren't exactly convenient for carrying around in a backpack.

[Brooks]

Originally Posted by walter23

Yes, but that's an issue with a lot of the field cameras out there.

You can get longer extension out of Linhof or Ebony cameras (which new will run you in excess of $3000).

Monorails are a different story, but those aren't exactly convenient for carrying around in a backpack.

Right, but if I remember correctly the Shen=Hao had one of the shortest bellows of the field cameras. Something like 12" ? I have a Zone VI which I believe has a bellows of 19" or 22" with its triple extension fully extended. It's been a while so I'd have to check to confirm those numbers. The Zone VI would also collapse to allow the use of a 75mm lens at infinity focus although with little to no movements.

My Sinar F2 was almost as easy to backpack as the ZoneVI though it required assembly and tear down every time it was used. The Sinar was much stronger and would lock down solidly compared to a wooden field camera.

Here's a shot from Big Bend National Park using the Zone VI with a Fuji 450mm telephoto lens to compress the perspective.

[walter23]

Fair enough. There are alternatives with longer extension. I think a lot of them are either no-longer manufactured or more expensive though.

I think the direct competition (tachihara and the low end Toyo field) are comparable in maximum bellows extension (about 12" / 320mm).

You can also look into Chamonix, Wista, Wisner, Canham, and the Walker ABS cameras. Also more expensive. I think the Chamonix might be the cheapest of the higher end ones, but I'm not sure what the availability is right now - last I checked there was a waiting list. Stocks might be up now.

Funny you should mention the Sinar monorail being "almost as easy to backpack as the Zone VI" because I just read a comment by Philip Greenspun (photo.net) that his Zone VI was " heavy and bulky, almost as bad as a Sinar F2"

Having said that I did almost pick up a Zone VI at one point (one came up used at a cheap price) just for the bellows extension... but I don't use lenses longer than 210mm and if I need closeup it's easy enough to use a 150mm or 90mm lens and get decent macro. For real macro (insects, etc) I use a DSLR, macro lens, extension tubes, and speed light with modifier. 1:1 on 4x5 with a 150mm lens, or 1:2 with a 210mm lens, is usually good enough for me.

[Brooks]

Originally Posted by walter23

Funny you should mention the Sinar monorail being "almost as easy to backpack as the Zone VI" because I just read a comment by Philip Greenspun (photo.net) that his Zone VI was " heavy and bulky, almost as bad as a Sinar F2" .

I'm on Photo.net, was a moderator for several years on the Lighting Forum and I've read Philip Greenspun's comments on the Zone VI. Apparently he hates that camera. More specifically, he dislikes the locking knobs with their knurled surfaces and the lack of rigidity that's common to most wooden field cameras.

He's right about the F2 being harder to pack and carry. After all it's made of metal so it's heavier and it disassembles into some large, ungainly pieces. A folding field camera is much easier to carry but not as precise in use.

Sadly I don't shoot much large format film anymore and t's a shame because BW film and silver prints are a great medium. My wife and I do what we call "photo safaris" which are really nothing more than cheap airline tickets on Southwest Airlines and a rental car for a week or so. We've traveled around the USA to the more scenic area using large format BW for me and medium format Hasselblad BW for her. We have a full wet darkroom and used to make all of our own prints.

Now we shoot digitally with Nikon D2X and D3X dSLRs. Digital is much easier to use than film, especially when moving through security at airports. The Kodak Readyloads that I used to use are discontinued and film holders have such dust and film loading issues when on the road.

An upside to using digital dSLRs is the great choice of lens focal lengths compared to large format and even to medium format. I still use a spot meter to determine exposures by placing the highlights, instead of the shadows as I used to do when shooting BW film. But I do miss shooting and processing BW film using the Zone System.

Techniques change with the times, I guess.

Here's another BW LF film shot of the Alabama Hills near Lone Pine, Ca.

[ZuikoRudi]

May I join the club ?
I am living in Guangzhou, China. I am a German expat and I have just received my Shenhao HZX45-IIA from Shanghai. Only € 480,-- including shipping. Before I can use it I have to buy at least one lens (which is on the way now). I bought a Fujinon W 150mm f/5.6 with Copal .0 shutter.
Now I am looking for something wider. I also still need to buy a light meter and a focussing lupe.
Then I am set.
The camera looks really cute and I do not have to add anything more which had been said here already.