How do I make an inexpensive start in medium format?

[Walter Moss]

I've always been afraid of medium format gear because I've assumed the entry price was steep. Is it possible to start inexpensively, say, for around $1,000?

Or am I dreaming?

If not, what would you experts here recommend?

[dougjgreen]

Nowadays, the priced of used Medium Format Gear has plummetted. If you don't mind buying used, there are tons of great choices, for well under $1000.

For under $200, you could get a Koni Omega 6x7 rangefinder with lens and back, or a really first rate TLR like a Yashica Mat-124 or Minolta Autocord, or a Rolleicord. You could even get a decent 6x6 TLR without a meter for under $100 (Yashica Mat, Yashica D, Ricohflex, Meopta etc.)

For $400-500, the field opens way up, to most of the very modern 645 systems from Pentax, Mamiya, and Bronica, as well as complete Mamiya RB67 and Pentax 67 outfits, as well as some of the finest Rolleiflex TLRs with a Planar or Xenotar lens.

$600-900 now opens up the field to very modern near state of the art outfits like the Hasselblad 503, the Rolleiflex 6006, and the Mamiya RZ67.


My recommendation is to get an inexpensive TLR in the $100-200 range as a starting point. Even if you eventually grow to one of the top tier MF systems, you'll still have use for a good 6x6 TLR for candid street shots, portraits, and other hand-held field shooting. Personally, in this group, I'm extremely partial to a Yashica Mat-124.

[jamesmking]

I just did this myself (a few months ago),
I went the bronica etrsi 6x4.5
route for several reasons,
the lenses and bodies are fairly cheap, the shutter control electronics is in the body so each lens does not need calibrating seperately and the body has shutter speeds from 1/500th down to 8 seconds.
the aeIII prism does down to 32 seconds (I do a lot of night photography) and has spot metering.
the etrsi is a 6xz4.5 camera with 15 shoots on a 120 roll and fairly light weight with interchangable film backs.

[dougjgreen]

I just wanted to reitterate, the Medium Format market is such that it's crazy to buy new, as there are tons of fantastic deals in the used market. Because many if not most working pros are trading in their MF gear for high end digital SLRs, there is an imbalance of supply and demand, such that a modern Medium Format system can be gotten used for something like 25 cents on the dollar compared to the same gear new. A perfect example is the Mamiya RZ67, where I recently bought a near mint RZ67 body, with 2 film magazines, meter prism finder, WL finder, and 110mm f2.8 lens for around $900. This same gear bought new would be well over $3000 (the body would be an RZ67 II, which is slightly improved, but really quite similar). Similar deals can be found for all brands of MF film gear.

[JDArt]

Originally Posted by dougjgreen

I just wanted to reitterate, the Medium Format market is such that it's crazy to buy new, as there are tons of fantastic deals in the used market.* Because many if not most working pros are trading in their MF gear for high end digital SLRs, there is an imbalance of supply and demand, such that a modern Medium Format system can be gotten used for something like 25 cents on the dollar compared to the same gear new.* A perfect example is the Mamiya RZ67, where I recently bought a near mint RZ67 body, with 2 film magazines, meter prism finder, WL finder, and 110mm f2.8 lens for around $900.* This same gear bought new would be well over $3000 (the body would be an RZ67 II, which is slightly improved, but really quite similar).* Similar deals can be found for all brands of MF film gear.

This is interesting, Doug. You say that most MF photographers are trading in their gear for high-end digital SLRs. I assume you mean the Canon 1DS Mark II, or are you talking about digital MF or something else?

Also, when looking on the used market, where do you go? EBay?

[dougjgreen]

I meant the Canon 1DS Mk II, or Nikon D2X nowadays, but this trend started even earlier, when the Nikon and Canon pro caliber DSLRs got to the 5-8 megapixel level, the pros started moving to them in droves. In the world of Wedding / Bar Mitzvah, Confirmation etc. Photography, for example, Digital has been the standard for several years now. Most of these Pros had been using Hassys, Rolleis, Mamiyas and Pentaxes up to that time. All of those Hassys, Rolleis, Mamiyas and Pentax Medium Format cameras have been ending up on ebay over the past few years. Complete Mamiya RB67s and Pentax 67s can now be gotten for $300 without meter heads but WITH standard lens, and $400-500 with TTL Meters, as a result of this trend.

Photojournalism also started to make the switch once pro DSLRs got to around 6 Megapixels.

Even Product and Fashion Photography has been shifting to digital, now that 12-16 Megapixel DSLR cameras are available from Nikon and Canon, although these are the markets where 16-30 MP Medium and Large Format cameras with digital backs are maintaining a foothold.

Nowadays, I buy all my used camera gear at either camera shows or ebay. I picked up the Mamiya RZ67 outfit I referred to on ebay. I just got myself a Kodak DCS-760 on ebay as well. If one confines their purchases to reputable, knowledgeable sellers, ebay is a safe place to buy used camera gear if you know what you are looking for.

Note, By pros, I meant working pros, who need to deliver on deadlines. As a result, what's happenning is that MF gear is moving into the hands of starving artists/aspiring students at unheard-of prices, so these folks can now produce incredible quality work using superb quality Medium Format gear, without a huge cash outlay, which previously would have made Medium Format prohibitive for them.

[nsurit]

At the risk of being accused of self promotion, I'll point you in the direction of an article I wrote the newsletter of Houston Photographic Society in the September 2005 issue. The site is hpsonline.org Go to the "President's Message" in the "Silver Image." These are example of images captured with a $20-$30 6X9 medium format camera. You might also look at some of the "folders" from the 1940's and 50's. Voigtlander had a RF, Bessa I and Bessa II. From the home page if you look at the members galleries, I have some rather abstract images done with my Olympus e-1 which you might find interesting. There is only aboutr 10% of our members who have posted galleries and I would encourage to view them as there are only 5 images in each gallery. Bill Barber

[Narsuitus]

When you say, “inexpensive start” in medium format photography, I know you mean something with a lot more substance than a $20 Holga.

If I needed to stay within a very limited budget, I would buy a used 6x6cm twin lens reflex (probably a Yashica or a Mamiya primarily because I have used them and am familiar with them).

However, if I were starting from scratch and had $1,000 to spend, I would buy a 6x4.5cm single lens reflex in slightly used condition. The 645 is a good compromise between the small fast 35mm camera and the better image quality of the slower operating larger format camera.

[jwind]

You could go the mamiya route or you could do what many "pros" did and pick up an old hassy body. To tell you the truth I'm not even sure how much they cost anymore due the price falling so quickly (BTW I assume we are talking film here b/c the digi backs are a whole different story). The lenses will be your real financial hurdle.

On the flip side if you ever DO invest in a digital back like leaf, sinar, etc... you'll already have "everything else." Who knows maybe those backs will be slightly below astronomical sometime soon

[Wilt]

Something to consider...Hassys were mostly used by pros. 'Pros' translates into 'a lot of usage' or 'a hard life', whereas 'amateur' often tranlates to 'owned by enthusiast who pampered their gear and put a lot less film thru their camera!'

I would rather buy a pampered Mamiya or Bronica over a well worn Hassy. Any difference in the optics is nullified when you have to send the worn out stuff in for refurbishing!

[dougjgreen]

Don't know about Bronicas, as I've never owned one, but I can assure you that Mamiyas across the board are more rugged than Hasselblads. From an optics perspective, I'd say that Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, Mamiya and Pentax are equivalent in quality, and I'd be surprised if Bronica was not similar. But the ergonomics of these various systems are all quite different, as well as are the types of shooting in which they each excell.

FIRST decide on whether most of your work will be with studio lighting, available lighting, or portable flash. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT

Then, decide on a format: 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, or even 6x9

Then decide on what type of camera system you need: TLR, Rangefinder, or SLR.

At that point, you should have it pretty well narrowed down.

[PhotoJoe]

Should you decide Hassy is the way to go, I have a 500 c/m that I have been debating on selling, or keeping as nostalgia. It has light use becasue I bought this as a backup to my two 551's. This has an 80mm T* lens, two A12 film backs, the pme51 45 degree metering prism, a grid screen and a UV filter. I'll sell it all for $950. I checked ebay and there are systems cheaper, and some more expensive. Tried to shoot for the middle.

Anyway, PM me if you decide you are interested, and good luck. I miss shooting MF.

[MelissaRae]

It's nice to see some people are still doing film For years I worked with a Pentax K1000 and then last November, I stepped into the world of MF. I would highly recommend eBay as the place to shop. I acquired a Mamiya 645 1000s for around $350 with two lenses and 2 film holders (120 and 220). I also acquired a Mamiya 645 Pro with a Macro lens for around $540 including the shipping.

Tho I've recently stepped up to a Canon 20D, I still intend to keep the Pro on hand as I do like to dabble with film and the darkroom some.

All in all, if you have the time to shop around on eBay, you can really find some awesome deals on MF cams. Take your time and don't jump at the first thing that catches your eye. Do the research and see what others are going for, set your price limit, stick to it and eventually you'll find what you're looking for in your price range A little patience can go a long way and save some big bucks in the end result!

[dougjgreen]

Originally Posted by Melissa

It's nice to see some people are still doing film For years I worked with a Pentax K1000 and then last November, I stepped into the world of MF. I would highly recommend eBay as the place to shop. I acquired a Mamiya 645 1000s for around $350 with two lenses and 2 film holders (120 and 220). I also acquired a Mamiya 645 Pro with a Macro lens for around $540 including the shipping.

Tho I've recently stepped up to a Canon 20D, I still intend to keep the Pro on hand as I do like to dabble with film and the darkroom some.

All in all, if you have the time to shop around on eBay, you can really find some awesome deals on MF cams. Take your time and don't jump at the first thing that catches your eye. Do the research and see what others are going for, set your price limit, stick to it and eventually you'll find what you're looking for in your price range A little patience can go a long way and save some big bucks in the end result!

This is good advice. I would also add, when buying MF gear on ebay, be sure to buy it from someone who's knowledgeable about it, not someone who bought out a pro's estate and has no clue if the gear works and it's genuine condition. You CAN find sellers who are knowledgeable, and who will guarantee the operating condition of what they are selling. And you will spend around 15-20% of the price of new gear when buying used on ebay. Consider the following guides:

Excellent Pentax 67 system with TTL finder and 90mm or 105mm lens $500-600

Excellent Mamiya RZ67 with 120 back, WL finder and 110mm lens $800

VG-Ex Mamiya RB67 with 120 back, WL finder and 90mm lens $300-350

Excellent Hassy 501 with 120 back, WL finder, and 80mm lens $800-900

Excellent complete Pentax, Mamiya, or Bronica 645 systems with lens and back for $400-500

VG fully working Koni Omega 6x7 with 90mm lens and 120 back for $150-200

Ex fully working Yashica Mat 124 TLR with working meter for $125-150

Ex fully working Yashica Mat or Yashica D TLRs (no meter) for well under $100.

BTW, if you REALLY wanted an inexpensive but good quality start in MF, I have a working Yashica D TLR with a Yashinon lens that I'll sell for $60 plus shipping. (I own two better TLRs, so I have no use for this one).

[Paul Shields]

This is a useful and timely guide - thanks! I'm thinking of getting an 'inexpensive' MF system purely do to landscape photography. My idea is that I use it for a few years until the time when (or maybe that should be 'if') digital catches up and can offer something of equal quality at a reasonable price. There are some amazing deals currently on ebay and the like, but one thing I'm not entirely sure of is the ongoing running costs. Are there any things to watch out for regarding this - e.g. film, processing and scanning costs?

[jmuffat]

I bought an Hasselblad 500C about a year ago along with a 2.8/80 and a 4/50, the lot for well less than what I paid for the D100 when it came out. Here is my experience:

The cost involved in MF isn't really in the camera, it's in film, processing and printing.

When you add up the cost of a roll and its processing, then divide that by the number of shots (12 in my case), you realise that you're spending 50p (~1$?) every time you take a shot on Velvia...

But that's not the end of the story: then you want to do big prints... And the best way to do so is to scan and then have the file printed on something like a Durst Lambda (which isn't cheap, but that's not where I'm headed).

I started by scanning the negs on an Epson Perfection 4870, and whichever way I tried, I wasn't getting results so much better than with a D100. There is the issue of grain. The best way I can explain my conclusions is to say that you want to either scan at a resolution that doesn't resolve grain at all, or at a resolution that resolves it completely. In the former case, you get something that I'd rate 6MP equivalent and, in the latter, something that actually makes it worth doing film... Grain makes the enlargement not only possible, but also interesting. I only started accomplishing this when I got hold of a Coolscan9000.

Where am I now?
The Hasselblad has got its own bag and its last outing was on saturday.
It's not on a shelf, even though I also use a D2x.
MF is a fantastic discipline, because of the cost, because of the time it takes to go from one shot to the next, because of the time it takes to change rolls, because of the time it takes to go from shoot to print, because of the mirrored view in the finder, because of the stance you take, it just leads you to take different pictures. It actually doesn't compare. It's complementary practice, it is what Tai-Chi-Chuan is to Kung-Fu

Concluding: anyone tempted by medium-format, don't hesitate to give it a go. There isn't much that can compare to a 6x6 slide of Velvia. But know there is a running cost, be prepared to pay for film+processing, be prepared to have a lab do the scanning and printing for you, don't think you're making a bargain

[justicehoward]

Well if i were you id try and get an older Hassie body and wait til this next year BECAUSE Hassie is ocming out with some great stuff. I had the Hassie rep over at my La studio and he told me about some great more inexpensive backs they have coming out this next year. Cant spoil Hassies secret marketing plan but wait til you see whats coming otu this year and its GEARED toward more inexpensive equipment. Id wait til next year were i you. I would not get Bronica stuff or anything under a Hassie. Also the older lenses are much shgarper ive done tests with them . An FYI if you want it >>>>JUSTICE HOWARD

[Latinbob]

For used MF gear, take a look at KEH.com. They have