Rodeo Arena Lighting

[jc77]

I do a lot of rodeos and horse shows during the summer months when they are held outdoors during the day, but I have to turn a lot of work away during the winter and at nights as they are held indoors and I don't have a lighting system.
There are a few other rodeo photographers in my area, but they are not interested in helping me as I am the competition.
My question is... what kind of lights should I buy? I know I need at least 2, and some pocket wizards. I am just clueless here... Would the 1600 AlienBees be powerful enough? The conditions are ranging from very, very dark outdoor arenas, to dimly lit indoor arenas. They are all action shots too, so they need to be bright enough to stop action. And yes, like most of us, I am on a budget... name brands are good.. then at least I'll know where to start looking .
ANY thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

Jamie

[cyclohexane]

Alien Bees don't hold up under heavy use, and their flash durations are long, which makes freezing action difficult. Alien Bees and White Lightnings control their flash duration differently than most other lights, so turning the power down will actually INCREASE the flash duration, making subject motion even more apparent.

Dynalite and Speedotron are the best arena lighting systems, offering packs and heads designed specifically to offer high power, short flash durations, and fast recycle times. Dynalite is pretty expensive and probably out of your budget, but they claim their arena system is more efficient than Speedotron.

Speedotron is a bit cheaper, but their stuff is heavy, clunky, and draws a ton of power. It also doesn't seem to hold up too well, as I helped my supervisor install some Speedotrons for volleyball last month, and we had to basically tape the heads together. Four 2400 watt second packs will serve you well, but will also destroy your budget.

Elinchrom used to offer the 1000R monoblock, which was a decent arena head because it was small, powerful, and had a very, very short flash duration. The big drawback on these was that the recycle time is a full three seconds, versus the Speedotrons which can get you in the ballpark of about 1 and a half second.

The current Elinchroms aren't as ideal for arena lighting, as the 1200RX monoblock has a rather long flash duration, and the 600RX is a little underpowered for larger venues. No improvement on the recycle times, either. Elinchroms are also pretty expensive, though we're not in Broncolor territory yet.

I've heard of White Lightnings being used to light arenas, but like I said before they're not really ideal. I have more faith in White Lightnings than I do Alien Bees, even though they're both Paul C. Buff products, but it's mostly due to the build quality of the WLs versus the ABs.

For Pocket Wizards, I recommend the MultiMax 32-channel unit, as it's easier to shoot with many photographers if you're not fighting over channels 1-4. The 4-channel Plus or Plus II units will work, but I have much less experience with them. You'll need a unit for every monoblock or pack, though if you can run inexpensive zipline between the packs you can get by with just one receiver and one transmitter.

For zipline, you want 18/2 unshielded lamp cord.


Here are some links to go through:

SportsShooter: Arena Lighting (the Speedotrons in the pictures of this article are the actual packs that I mentioned earlier in this post; that T-shirt in the first picture is still being used to cover the reflectors)

SportsShooter: Pocket Wizard basics and then some! (Part 1)

SportsShooter: Pocket Wizard basics and then some! (Part 2)

SportsShooter: Ask Sports Shooter: Understanding Flash Duration

Dave Black Photography: Sports Flash Photography

Dave Black Photography: Arena Sport Strobe Lighting 101

Dave Black Photography: Arena Sport Strobe Lighting 102

[jc77]

Oh you are an angel! Thank you so much for your help!

[cyclohexane]

Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll do my best to answer them, or direct you to somewhere that can help.

[jc77]

Four 2400 watt second packs will serve you well, but will also destroy your budget.

Do you mean these ones? Speedotron Product Details

[cyclohexane]

Yes, but you need this too: Speedotron Product Details

[jc77]

Aack!!! Don't they make any that plug into an outlet? I have NO problem running extension cords..

[cyclohexane]

They do plug into an outlet. You plug the pack into an outlet, and then the head into the pack.

[jc77]

Oh I see... wow yeah those puppies are pricey

[RodeoHammer]

All of the guys I know use white lighting and some use the bees. I use the bees and have had no problem. I mainly use the Norman 400B. Working to buy more bee's and the cyber comander.

[Songman45]

I've used White Lightnings 2X 3200 for large arenas with the larger reflectors if lit from the rafters and the normal reflectors if lit from the mez. I honestly did not know they were second-rate, they always fire when triggered and the lighting is consistant. More importantly we sell the pictures. The flash duration issue never came up especially in light of cameras that won't sync any faster than 250th in arenas with mecrury vapor lighting.

I'm sold on white lightnings. For the price you won't find a more ruggedly built, reliable, cheaper to replace if you break it light. The customer service is second to none.

Steve

[Benji]

My daughter-in-law was in a horse show this past summer and she proudly showed me a horribly lit, underexposed, tungsten lit (but uncorrected) out of focus blurry image of her riding her horse. I said it was too bad the photographer didn't use flash so he could get a decent shot, to which she responded "flash spooks the horses and is not allowed." I find that hard to believe. What say ye?

Benji

[Songman45]

Originally Posted by Benji

My daughter-in-law was in a horse show this past summer and she proudly showed me a horribly lit, underexposed, tungsten lit (but uncorrected) out of focus blurry image of her riding her horse. I said it was too bad the photographer didn't use flash so he could get a decent shot, to which she responded "flash spooks the horses and is not allowed." I find that hard to believe. What say ye?

Benji

Hey Benji,

Always a pleasure to participate in a thread with you. I say, "Horse Cookies" about both flash spooking horses and it not being allowed. I've been up and down the East Coast and over half of Texas shooting horse shows. I've wored with and for three of the top 5 equestrian photographers in the NE region. I've photographed gaited horses, horses over fences, Western horses more recently I photographed the Andalusian Nationals at Will Rogers in Ft. Worth, TX. These are among the most expensive horses in the world. Using flash in arenas is not only common and expected but it's required. Quite honestly the mirror slap is more likely to get a horses attention than a flash.

Google a breed or a discipline and look at image galleries. You'll see that lighting with flash either studio units or bracket mounted hi-power flash is more the rule than the execption. On occasion, you will find a competitor who insists that flash not be used on his/her horse. Of course a polite compliance with that is in order. If a horse is so spooky and the rider isn't able to control the animal it probably doesn't belong in a show ring anyway. I am not the judge of that and just not shooting a horse or two now and then is easier than a debate with a sensitive rider.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Songman45

Hey Benji,

Using flash in arenas is not only common and expected but it's required. Quite honestly the mirror slap is more likely to get a horses attention than a flash.

If a horse is so spooky and the rider isn't able to control the animal it probably doesn't belong in a show ring anyway. I am not the judge of that and just not shooting a horse or two now and then is easier than a debate with a sensitive rider.

EXACTLY as I thought. When she said this it sounded just a bit too fabricated. This guy apparantly forgot his flash and was trying to buffalo his way through the shoot. Thanks.

Benji

[Songman45]

So if you ever need a competent equestrian photographer.......

Regards,
Steve

[jeff martin]

Originally Posted by Benji

My daughter-in-law was in a horse show this past summer and she proudly showed me a horribly lit, underexposed, tungsten lit (but uncorrected) out of focus blurry image of her riding her horse. I said it was too bad the photographer didn't use flash so he could get a decent shot, to which she responded "flash spooks the horses and is not allowed." I find that hard to believe. What say ye?

Benji

Sounds like poop; however the people putting on the show may believe it. Ohio won't allow strobes for HS volleyball. Too distracting (they say). The CLE area hockey HS league won't allow flash. Too dangerous for the kids even though they see it at state tourney time. Kinda like Tiger going ape shit when hearing a mirror slap (if it's a bad shot).

[Songman45]

I've shot hundreds of horse shows and have never been told by management that flash is not allowed. I'm only one very small guy swimming in an ocean of equine photographers and I know of not one who doesn't use flash. The usage covers the gamut, from hotshoe mounts and bracket mounts to full out studio units lighting up an entire arena. I seriously doubt he was prohibited by the show managment. I'm incline to agree with Benji's assertion that it was the photographer. He either did not have the appropriate equipment for the job (as is the case for a lot of "Johnnie Come Latelys") or he left part of his gear at home.

Steve

[CharlesE]

I am new here but not to equine related photography or photography in general. I personally feel that the AB1600's are awesome and use them in my work when needed. While I don't normally shot horse shows, I have. My units are almost 8 years old and have traveled nearly 150,000 miles stored in containers in the bed of my pick up truck. I have only had to replace the flash tubes in two of them so far.

I know photographers who shoot every week sometimes ten day shows that use only the AB's and they experience very little trouble. As was pointed out, they are cheap compared to other units mentioned. If you have shot in the horse world or rodeo world, you know that no one shooting is getting rich doing it.

Yes, there are way to many who can purchase a DSLR and a few lenses then go out calling themselves pros in any field. The horse related world it full of those people. We all started someplace so I try to help those that want help do better.

For a full sized Rodeo or horse show arena, I would if I shot enough of them put up at least 20 AB 1600's any way that I could. I normally use ten but there are dark places in the arena.

As far as spooking horses, you won't hear much about flash being a no no at a breed show but go out and shoot one of the regional or local dressage shows and you will be ran out of the place if a horse flinches. I have been a horse trainer and breeder, the flash doesn't spook a trained horse, it is the rider who is easily distracted in almost all cases but horses can be as well. As a photographer we can be sued because of what someone thinks and if you have ever seen a bad reck at a show, someone is going to be blamed, not the horse owner or rider.

Of course, I have never seen a bad photo out of a professional studio either, how about you guys? We are always going to have to face newcomers and it is because of groups like that that they can be helped to grow into professionals.

I have been going through many pages tonight and this is an awesome group. Keep up the great help and encouragement. I have seen many things that are encouraging tonight. I have been in this business either full time or part time for forty years.

Thanks,
Charles

[mobei]

If the AB1600 flash duration doesn't create motion blur on the horses extremities than go with them. I've owned a couple of 1600's and currently have AB800's.
I have never had a problem with any of them.
Save your wallet.

[CharlesE]

Originally Posted by mobei

If the AB1600 flash duration doesn't create motion blur on the horses extremities than go with them. I've owned a couple of 1600's and currently have AB800's.
I have never had a problem with any of them.
Save your wallet.

I agree, save your money, here is a shot taken at a National Team Roping Horse event. It was taken using five AB1600's, not enough to really cover the whole arena but these guys are professionals and I could predict where they would be most of the time. I was shooting at ISO 1000. This was also shot with a Nikon 200-400 f4 zoom at near the 400mm end and f5.6 and SS 1/250. The feet appear pretty sharp, you be the judge. Most rodeo photographers are using a 70 to 200 so I would suspect they would get even better action stopping images.

I talked with one of the tech reps about the flash duration of the 1600's. They have a formula that I am not sure I understand but at the peak the flash goes off somewhere near 1/1800 of a second. I can shoot rodeo events outdoors in daylight using a 400mm lens at 1/640 and get good results.

For a single flash, a Norman 400B works pretty nicely when using their tel reflector. You won't shoot on auto and distance makes a big difference in your exposure. I am please with the AB's.

PS, this image was upsized for the vertical cover as it was shot in a horizontal format. Another benefit to using lights hung in the ceiling is you don't get the gray-eye in horses or animals (red-eye for humans) This image image has very little post processing. Also the PW's I had rented because I had heard they were better didn't work, they were using radio mic's which fired my flash units any time they were talking. I had just purchased the CyberSync™ CST and had them with me just in case. I installed them on the flash units and they worked without a hitch.

Hope all this helps. Again I don't normally shoot shows, I mostly shoot editorial and advertising images for the horse industry.

Charles