Yongnuo, is it end of Pocket Wzard ?

[km6xz]

Hi Mike
Moving to the longer wavelengths of 344Mhz would not be easy for a manufacturer which might not like custom jobs but there is only one high Q tank circuit in the PW carrier frequency. A well equipped radio hobbyist would be able get them back to proper range provided the frequency programming had already been done by the factory.

Another alternative would be to simply get a license for them, the frequency used in the CE model is allocated to Amateur Radio in North America. Now that code tests have been eliminated, a Technician Class license could be gotten easily. Just check with your local ham radio club. There is an exam but there are study guides with the actual questions and answers(all the questions and answers in a question pool from which the actual exam questions are selected).

The PW RF circuits are no sophisticated at all, in fact they are very simple and crude. I believe the ones I made are much better technically. If any manufacture wanted to make them much cheaper, they would be assured of a decent sized market if they knew how to promote it. There is nothing magical about the various brands out there now and a decent engineer could create something with far greater appeal. A cell phone is 1,000 times more sophisticated but sells for much less than a PW solely because the potential market is very small.
I read a White Paper published by one RF link manufacture that was so full of marketing hype and false claims of the difficulty in creating such a device that I understood immediately how is was NOT very difficult to accomplish. When designing mine, the case design and metal parts done for the shoe mount were the most troublesome. I had to have a local machine shop make the parts for the shoe connector but if more than a few were made that would be a non-issue since a jig would be made for it. Same with a mold for a case. A class A or B mold is expensive for low production numbers, very cheap for high numbers.
I would be surprised if Nikon DIDN'T install RF links in the future to their high end cameras and flash units, at those manufacturing quantities, and not requiring the case, the bonus of increased sales away from competitors would be a very low investment. Without a case and mounting hardware that external units need, the cost per camera would be $4-10. I would upgrade if a new model had that feature, I suspect many others would also.

[Ed Shapiro]

I realize that the Pocket Wizards do not incorporate "state of the art" circuitry but as far as off the shelf units, I have found that the work better than most. Of course, some of my opinion is based on comparisons with older models that operated on the old 11 meter citizens band (GRS in Canada) that were subject to every kind of interference and were no more sophisticated than a remote control garage door opener. Some of the older units operated on the VHS commercial bands but theses were very large and added significant weight to an on camera hand held flash instillation.

My pocket Wizards have operated well in areas with all kinds of metal structures and construction. They have been able to work in steel framed buildings right through the floors and trigger units several floors above and beneath them. I suppose that UHF signals bounce around and manage to work well in non line of sight situations.

My experience in building and modifying flash equipment has been in constructing custom power supplies to meet my needs as a photographer. Many of my home made units are simply for lots of power, in the area of 4800 w/s and above to power specially made flash heads with multiple tubes- mostly for commercial work where I need soft modified light and still want to shoot a very small apertures. Some of my packs are the size of small steamer trunks as I am not well imitated in miniaturization. Some of my power supplies were made in the 1960s and still incorporate selenium rectifiers and other such arcane componants- but they are still working. My later units are somewhat smaller but I still find it less frustrating to purchase my radio slaves off the rack. My forte is really lamp head design where I can get to control the aesthetics of the lighting by creating reflector/flash tube relationships that give me the specific lighting I am looking for.

Interesting! That is the frequency assignments in Europe. In the U.S. and Canada they are the same because of the proxmety of these countries. My question is; would there be any significant interference caused by a low power device such as a radio-slave to cause a violation of the law or is it that the U.S. units set up for North American use can not be exported into Europe? Another question is; are the European frequencies assigned to other radios services in the same range as the American units devices PROTECTED? To my knowledge, here in North America the only PROTECTED frequencies are ones used by government, emergency services, some commercial frequencies and commercial and public broadcasting stations. Of course, amateur radio operators are licensed. Here in Canada, you won't get a visit from the communications officials unless you are running something that is pretty outrageous at high power and interfering with one of the aforementioned protected bands.

Too bad about the code- I used to enjoy it! Yes- S.O.S is no longer the official code for nautical or aeronautical emergencies according to the Department of Transportation up here in Canada. Some repeater stations are still identified by the code when the kick in.

Ed

[Mike66]

In Europe, the 344MHz frequency assigned to US products falls within the military defense band reserved for military use and air traffic control. In the US, the 433MHz frequency assigned to CE products falls within the Radiolocation and Amateur band.

If I were going to take my chances with an irate user for frequency trespassing, I think it will have to be the amateur radio operator in the US. I am not as worried about my PW interfering with something else as much as I would be with something else interfering with my PW.

The penalties for using the CE unit in the US might not be as bad as using the US unit in the CE. Obtaining the Amateur Radio License for the transmitter appears to make it possible to use the CE unit in the US.

[Harry]

Read the first few posts and nearly jumped and bought a set. Then went over to the flicker site and started reading through some of those posts. . . pocket wizards or freewire seem to be much more reliable. I guess you have to weigh out your priorities.

[Stephaniespix]

Interesting info, I have two PW IIs still, waiting for the poppers but it is great to know there is a less expensive alternative if I am not going to a stadium, for example.

[vadim]

Originally Posted by kewk

Here is a flickr thread 5 pages long discussing this. It's damn cost effective and seems to work for most people with the occasional manufacturing defect. Flickr: Discussing New type of eBay triggers [CTR-301] in Strobist.com

This is a completely different and inferior product. And I see somebody changed his decision based on your post

[Austen]

Originally Posted by Harry

Read the first few posts and nearly jumped and bought a set. Then went over to the flicker site and started reading through some of those posts. . . pocket wizards or freewire seem to be much more reliable. I guess you have to weigh out your priorities.

As a very happy owner of the CTR-301P, I can only imagine how good their new ones must be !!

When I got mine I wrote a review here on the 'Camel, and nothing has changed my mind !!

If you read the first few posts on the Flickr thread, you may of noticed that the thread was started nine months ago, and most of the first page of posts seemed to be by nay-sayers who had not tried them out !!

As far as the CTR-301P goes, here's the facts.....

Mine works RELIABLY out to at least 17 meters.

Mine works RELIABLY with my Canon 580EX-II Speedlight.

There is a three-position switch on the front L-Off-W, "L" being for "Light" so they will act as an optical slave to trigger your Speedlight, "W" being for "Wireless" mode, what you'd expect, and Off....Well, you can work that one out yourself !!

The receiver has a standard 1/4" x 20 thread socket in the bottom, to allow easy fitting to a tripod or lightstand with suitable adapter.

They are HEAPS cheaper then the brand-name alternatives, but of course, they don't do ETTL.

Based on my experiences with the 301P's, I'd have no hesitation recommending them, and would happily buy the newer RF602's if I was in the market.

HTH,

Austen.

[Harry]

Thanks Austen, maybe I'll give these another look-see.

[deluco]

Originally Posted by vadim

Just the fact that transmitter and receiver contained a bag of silicagel and the supplied batteries are normally functional batteries instead of previous "test' batteries already tells a lot. The specified working distance is 100m - 10 times higher than most triggers in this price range. The hot shoe connector pins are made so much better than the one in CTR-301. 2.4 GHZ and a lot of connection options makes this a very worthy rival to Pocket Wizard. My guess is there is very little justification now for buying 10 times more expensive PWs.

If you believe that a $30 radio slave is just as good as a $250 radio slave, just on what you see out of the box and what you read in the manufacturer's spec's...well, what else can we say? Sell your SLR's and buy point and shoot's.

[Austen]

Originally Posted by vadim

.....My guess is there is very little justification now for buying 10 times more expensive PWs.......

Originally Posted by deluco

If you believe that a $30 radio slave is just as good as a $250 radio slave, just on what you see out of the box and what you read in the manufacturer's spec's...well, what else can we say? Sell your SLR's and buy point and shoot's.

Thanks for your input deluco......

My set of (one transmitter, three receivers) Yongnu CTR-301P's cost me AUD$80.00

Here is a link to an Australian website that sells (genuine) Pocket Wizards (CE (for Australia) approved)

Clicky Linky Thingie

To save you all unnecessary clicking, you can take my word that each transceiver is AUD$ 399.00.

Therefore, a set of four, to use as one transmitter and three receivers would cost me AUD$1,596.00

With apologies to vadim, the Pocket Wizards are not 10 times more expensive PW they are 20 times the price !!

Let me repeat that, Here In Australia Pocket Wizards Are Twenty Times The Price Of Yongnuo Triggers.

Yes, Pocket Wizards **ARE** better then Yongnuo triggers, for 20 times the price they better bloody well be !!

For a "casual" shooter, the cheaper triggers are just so far out in front as far as **VALUE** goes, the Pocket Wizards are not even in the same (value) ball-park.

Originally Posted by deluco

just on what you see out of the box and what you read in the manufacturer's spec's...

I'm not sure that vadin could really be accused of not giving his (later model then mine) units at least a fair trial .....

Originally Posted by vadim

So I went to the beach...... Finally the receiver stopped detecting the signal. It was at 330 meters - or 1000 feet; far more than almost any imaginable setup would require.

You basically said that vadim (and all other non deluce-approved trigger users )were idiots who did not deserve to own a SLR...Based on what ??

This thread is clearly about the Yongnuo Triggers, Could you please document YOUR extensive experience with these triggers so that we may discuss why it appears that all people who actually own them are so happy with them and why you disagree with these people ?

Surely you have a great deal of practical experience with the Yongnuo triggers to make your (some would say) outlandish statements ?

Many thanks,

Austen.

[deluco]

You are correct that for casual shooters, Pocket Wizards are not necessary. I too would have a problem paying that kind of money for any radio slaves, unless I was making some serious money with my work. I had no idea that they were so expensive in other areas of the world.

[Ed Shapiro]

When you get right down to brass tacks, there is really little to argue about- common sense should prevail. Basically, one must buy what one can afford also realizing that, in most cases, you get what you pay for.

In non-professional use, just about any of the currently available radio slaves will do the job, especially if your work is confined to an in-home studio where your equipment, in general, will not be subject to rigors of transportation and day in and day out usage. Even in a relatively large studio, distance and line-of-sight consideration are not problematic issues.

Once you get into full time professional use, especially on location, my experience indicates that in all equipment choice, you need to "bite the bullet" and spring for the upscale gear. When you make your living from you photographic work, you can't afford equipment failures and shortcomings in reliability and range.

I have 10 lights in my studio but I only use one Pocket Wizard pair because all my my mono-lights and packs have old fashioned photo/electric slaves built into them. Some of my (external) Wein photocells are 30 years old and have never failed in the studio, some of the were never removed from the units they are attached to. Of course, in my studio, I don't have to worry about other photographers shooting and setting off my lights just when I need them to be fully recycled and ready to shoot, For location work, however, I use 10 Pocket Wizards and these too have been extremely reliable in all kinds of less then perfect situations. In large industrial sites oftentimes I have to "hang" lights on cat walks and other places that are not easily accessible and if a unit fails in the middle of a shoot, that means stopping the session, erecting a big stepladder and going off on a troubleshooting venture- no a good idea when the factory production is being held up for the shoot.
If you buy less expensive units and eventually find them to be inadequate for your purposes, whatever money you have invested in the less expensive gear is lost and you still have to upgrade and purchase better equipment. On the other hand, in a simple studio situation, you may not need long range, multiple channels and all kinds of switching features- so why pay for them?

Regardless of brand names and/or price, I have found that good maintenance of you radio slaves will give you better performance and longevity. Simple things like using fresh batteries, keeping battery and all contacts clean and in top shape, avoiding unnecessary vibration and rough handling will help . The miniature switches and jacks/plugs, in even the best units, are competitively fragile, so take it easy on the switches and provide strain relief for all cords that are plugged into your radio slaves. Use masking tape to tape down little switches which can be accidentally moved during sessions- this will avoid having a vital light in you system not be unnoticeably turned off. Keep antennas in good repair- don't bend of damage them and avoid their contact with bracket, cameras or light stands durring use. For best preformance, keep all you antennas in the vertical orientation when in use.

I hope this helps. Ed

Ed

[lukeap69]

I have both the CTR-301P and now the RF-602. CTR-301P are very good and reliable. Used them with other group of photogs using different triggers and did not have a single misfire. The only thing is their distance is quite limited, say around 30m (approx.)

I've tested the RF-602 for more than 100m and still firing and I stopped because I wouldn't use these for longer distance. I may not be able to see my subject.

One thing I like about the RF-602 is the ability to wake the flash with half shutter press of the camera. This for me is a very good feature of these new triggers. Not sure if the PW's can do that.

[dinomite]

Does anyone know if the RF-602 will work with the 7D?

[Harry]

Originally Posted by dinomite

Does anyone know if the RF-602 will work with the 7D?

The hotshoe will be the same, no problem there. It will also fire your 7D if the 7 has the N3 connector. (the little three pronged connector) It probably does.

[mickeyfdr]

Doesn't the 7d have a built in flash transmitter? I think it does.

[dinomite]

I don't have a flash that will work with it at this time... I also have studio lights that I would like to use this with... My studio lights don't have wireless and my 380EX doesn't either...

[Austen]

Originally Posted by dinomite

I don't have a flash that will work with it at this time... I also have studio lights that I would like to use this with... My studio lights don't have wireless and my 380EX doesn't either...

You can use (the Yongnuo CTR-301P) with your studio lights, no problem.

I haven't used the newer RF602, but not only would I be stunned if you couldn't, according to their eBay listing you specifically can....."6.35mm...&3.5mm adapter...Can be connected with Studio Light".

Austen.

[lukeap69]

RF-602 can be use for studio lights. The original package contains cable for studio light connection 6.35mm and also the adapter to 3.5mm.

I use RF-602 with different lights at the same time with no problem (580EX II, 430EX, SB-28, 600Ws, 180Ws monolights).

I don't see any reason why it will not work with 7D although I have not tested it personally because I don't have 7D

[dinomite]

I sent an email to two different sellers on ebay for the RF-602's and one person says that they will not work and the other says it does? The first guy told me that the factory has to release a 7D version... The other told me it will work with flying colors??