Compare and contrast paper to fabrice/muslin

[JDArt]

It does wrinkly too easily for my taste. But then again, it's fairly inexpensive. You buy it on longish rolls, and just pull out / cut off more as you need it.

I've not had issues with reflectivity. Still, it's my least fav. Others will disagree.

[Blinky]

Paper will kink, get wrinkled, get footprints on it, punctures... but that's the idea. You use it until it's worn out... which can be in a single shoot sometimes, then you cut it off and roll out more.

It is very reflective and that too is an advantage, you can change it's color by lighting it with gels. With white or black you can do fast background elimination by underexposing(black) or overexsposing(white) the background in relation to the subject.

You have to store rolled paper vertically or it will develop a curvature or warp over time (several months).

I've had terrible experiences (read costly) with chroma key paper because BG reflections fringed the subject with color... it had the exact reverse effect I wanted by making the post production work much more intensive.

Seamless paper is cheap but shipping it is expensive. Check several sources if you aren't buying locally; ask if they will ship two or three rolls taped together as one package to save $$.



Cloth will wrinkle, hiold a stain, get ripped and warped... you can use those to your advantage if you incorporate them into the design of your shot. Cloth is often transparent; I use a 9' x 12' sheet of white muslin to make a giant backlight box by sandwiching a couple of strobes between it and a drop of white seamless.

I have no real experience with painted or stained muslins.

Cloth is virtually impossible to hang without showing warps or wrinkles and consequently will amplify uneven lighting. Cloth is hard to find in oversize widths.

Chip

[JDArt]

You can pick up mulsin cheap on eBay. Look there especially for your standard grays/whites/blacks. Amvona I've had good luck with.

[mikej]

There sure have been a lot of threads on paper and muslin lately. The information would make a good FAQ or other permanent info file.

Seamless paper mainly comes from two manufacturers... Savage and Superior. Both make excellent paper products in widths up to 127" I believe, with the standard being 107" wide by 35' long. Savage comes in a tube, while Superior comes in a box. Cost is about the same, $50 local or buy it cheaper on the internet and pay shipping which brings it up to about $50 a roll. B&H Photo sells Savage but Superior is a bit harder to find but most bigger photo stores have it. Both have good color choices but Superior has a few more choices available and some gradient colored papers I'd like to try out.

I like seamless because it does give a good smooth texture appearance, even color and easy to get even lighting across it. It's not as easy to tear as you would think... I've shot a lot of dogs on it and have yet to go completely through a 35' roll... close on a couple of colors though from cutting off the bad parts every few sessions.

Muslin is great because it doesn't tear (you can poke through it though), can be wadded up to take up little space, is lighter and can be hung from most anything. It comes in several flavors... raw colored (kind of like a weak tea stain), bleached white, dyed and painted. Raw is good if you want to paint or dye it yourself. Bleached makes a good white background, dyed can be ok, although the best dyed ones have the threads dyed before the muslin is sewed together. I have a black muslin done this way and have been using it for years and it's still good and black. Painted gives you the best color schemes, texture and color saturation. Painted is also stiffer, heavier and more expensive but it still looks better.

For muslin sources, you can try out these places:

http://www.seattlefabrics.com/
http://www.chicagocanvas.com/
http://www.dharmatrading.com/

These can give you a pretty good choice of muslin and other materials. A good source of information is a place that makes painted muslin backgrounds and runs a forum for those that want to discuss using any type of backgrounds, not just the ones he makes. This is http://www.silverlakephoto.com plus he does great backgrounds. I have two of his.

Mike

[JDArt]

Originally Posted by TJPhotoGuy

THanks for the info. One issue with the paper is that I often shoot with people sitting or lying down. How can you do that without the paper getting all wrinkled up??

You can't so far as I know.

[Blinky]

Originally Posted by TJPhotoGuy

THanks for the info. One issue with the paper is that I often shoot with people sitting or lying down. How can you do that without the paper getting all wrinkled up??

A common trick is to use a 4'x8' sheet of white wallboard and blend the edges in PS... on black or colored paper you can use lexan. It also creates a cool reflection.



The wallboard is cheap and available at Home Depotilike places for $10 a sheet... Lexan is expensive and generally has to come from a plastics wholesaler if you want 4'x8'. Acrylic is cheaper but scratches easier... they all scratch but the scratches have to be deep to show up.

Chip

[Latinbob]

Is that wallboard in your shot Blinky? Or is that Lexan?

[Blinky]

Originally Posted by Latinbob

Is that wallboard in your shot Blinky? Or is that Lexan?

It's wallboard... I buffed in a quick coat of carnuba wax to give it a touch more shine... and nearly made Beth bust her cute li'l butt because the shoes were new and slick too.

[d2creative]

By "wallboard" do you mean sheetrock Or is it somethign else?
I've done a lot of work with sheetrock and couldn't see waxing it.

[Blinky]

Originally Posted by d2creative

By "wallboard" do you mean sheetrock Or is it somethign else?
I've done a lot of work with sheetrock and couldn't see waxing it.

Yeah, guess I should have been a little more clear. I don't know the right name for it but it's paneling like you'd see in a bathroom. 1/8" thick, high density fiber composite with a slick white surface, probably a polyester resin of some sort... like a fiberglass gelcoat if you're familiar with that.

If you go to a Lowes or Home Depot or a building supply, you'll find it in the paneling section.


If you're setting up a studio, go ahead and pickup a couple of sheets of rigid foam, house insulation board and some flat black paint while you're there. Paint both sides black, slit them vertically in the center, tape the slit to make a hinge and presto, free standing bookends to mask the spill from your background lights; like this...



Chip

[d2creative]

Thanks, Blinky! I'll check it out.
I made some white bookends for reflectors out of foamcore just like that.

[mikej]

I have never had a problem with wrinkles on my paper when someone layed on it or stood on it if the paper was on a hard surface. If they squirm around and scoot about, t hen yes, you could get paper krinkles. But other wise, no.

If you have the paper on carpet, it depends on how thick the carpet is. But usually, even this is not a problem. You don't want high heels or othe sharp objects on paper when it's on thick carpet or a pad though or it will poke through. But someone laying down might show a indention in the paper, but you will get that with muslin as well.

If you want it flat, use a hard surface underneath the paper or muslin.

Mike

[Blinky]

Originally Posted by TJPhotoGuy

Another question regarding paper... if you're the only guy without an assistant, wouldn't you have to have the subject help you swap rolls? I mean, those things have to be heavy.

It ain't the weight so much as the length! I have holes in the ends of my crossbars and a short length of chain between the bar and the clamp on one end. I loosen the end with the chain and gently lower the bar until it' off the clamp and on the chain. Then I take down the other end and slip the roll off.

It's easier to do than it is to type.

Chip

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

It all depends on the floor you use it on.
Normally I can use a roll of background paper for about 6 months, and I shoot A LOT
This means every 2 months I will cut a piece of and start new.

The reason I cut it of is not due to wrinkles but dirt or small tears.
The paper is very very strong and looks more like carton than paper.
Don't worry about it

[grsphoto]

The paper rolls aren't heavy, just awkward. I usually swap all the rolls ( including 12 ') myself... it may take several trips up the ladder.

Glenn