Using SB800 with Umbrella

[Eero Makela]

So I picked up a 46" Shoot thru umbrella that also can be used for Bounce . It has a removable black cover that fits on the outside.

I got a Manfrotto Lite Tite head to mount all the stuff on and a 4 section stand for it.

Setting up the Manfrotto head is not easy but I think I got it ok.

OK now to the question

I setup the SB800 to bounce off the umbrella and set it to manual remote (using the D300 as commander)

I take a light meter reading at it shows F4 at 1/40 using ISO 200 and shows 80% of flash in total exposure. I dial in these settings however The exposure is totally over exposed. I then set the F to 13 and it looks a lot better.

I have the popup flash on manual at lowest setting of 1/128 and If I just use the pop up the exposure is dark as expected. I am using it only to trigger the SB800.

If I use the flash meter settings it is like over exposed every time.

[hotrod4x5]

Maybe something is wrong with your meter... ?

[Eero Makela]

Thanks for the suggestion
Nope, just tested it now, I just used ISO 200 1/125 Manual on Camera and set Flash (on board D300 to Manual 1/4 power) got a reading F6.3 and used it for camera and picture was fine. Set flash to manual full power and took new reading and increased F14.

Back to the drawing board on the shoot thru umbrella...

[Eero Makela]

Now I know what it is. I am using my on board D300 flash at its lowest setting and as commander mode and setting the SB800 to 1/4 via the camera control. If I meter with both the onboard and the SB800 by doing a normal shutter release it messes up the value

If I just set the SB800 to Manual mode 1/4 and measure by using the test flash button it gets the value correct. Then I dial that that in and set the onboard again to commander mode and lowest setting 1/128 and set the SB800 at 1/4 via the camera control. it works fine.

It must be the pre-flash that is used by the commander mode (if not mistaken) that is messing with the value on the meter.

[RvA944]

ecto69,

I've got a D80 and a few SB-600 that I use too. I turn off the popup strobe off. And fire the SB-600 with the commander mode in the D80. Where I can also set the power of the strobes right from the camera. I'm pretty sure that D300 should be able to do the same. I think the D300 has a few more groups then D80 dose too. I've only have two groups to work with.

Best,

Roger

[hotrod4x5]

Originally Posted by RvA944

ecto69,

I've got a D80 and a few SB-600 that I use too. I turn off the popup strobe off. And fire the SB-600 with the commander mode in the D80. Where I can also set the power of the strobes right from the camera. I'm pretty sure that D300 should be able to do the same. I think the D300 has a few more groups then D80 dose too. I've only have two groups to work with.

Best,

Roger

So you are able to command the Sb600s without a flash from the on camera pop up? I really don't think the D200 or 300 can do this, hence the SU 800.

[Eero Makela]

Originally Posted by hotrod4x5

So you are able to command the Sb600s without a flash from the on camera pop up? I really don't think the D200 or 300 can do this, hence the SU 800.

Yah I was wondering about that as well. I can turn the flash off in the D300 but it still sends a flash out to trigger the SB800

There are 3 modes for TTL M and -- (-- turns off the option to adjust the Comp. value) so I assumed this turned it off

Nikon D300 Commander Mode - Photo.net Nikon Forum

I also did a test shot in commander mode but turned off the SB800 to see how much light if any it used on the subject and the picture was dark as expected. So if it does flash it is so low that it does not add much to the over light in the photo. See above message thread I just found on this subject.

Bottom Line I guess we D300/200 owners need to get the nikon filter to stop the light from the flash. It is this preflash that is detected by my Flash meter and gives a false low reading. I guess I will need to either use SC29 or PW to trigger flash and not use the PopUp at least when I am doing light measurements. OR best of all just measure the light with the test button on the SB800 and set to the light meter value and can still use the camera in commander mode. (the reason for this is to reduce the amount of stuff you need to carry with you and it easier to setup without PW)

[Ed Shapiro]

Hi gang!

To get the most constant and accurate use of your umbrella system and maximize the soft light effect of an umbrella setup, it is best to operate everything on MANUAL and forget any kind of camera or flash automation. If you can fire your lights via a direct hard wire PC cord or a reliable radio trigger- thats all you need.

A properly made incident light reading where the meter is placed in front of the subject with the light collector (dick or dome) is pointed back at the camera should yield consistent and accurate readings. Unless you are combing you flash with other light sources, 100% of the light should come from the flash equipment. If you wish to drag the shutter slightly a bit of warmth can be added from incandescent lights near the subject or from the modeling lights in a mono-lite type studio strobe.

Any on camera pr pop up flashed should not be used as it will affect the exposure and probably wipe out the soft effect of the umbrella lighting. If any on camera flash is used, it should be bounced off the ceiling or the back wall to provide fill lighting. The ideal situation would be two Leigh's each bounced off an umbrella or a large umbrella behind the camera acting as a fill light and as smaller shoot-through umbrella used as a main light.

If you have some experience with studio lighting, you will be able to guesstimate the lighting positions and create some classic lighting patterns without modeling lamps. Of course, the ideal portrait lighting is more easily achieved with mono lights or power pack studio units with modeling lights. With your portables- you may be able to rig up a modeling lamp for you main light using a 75 watt reflector flood shooting through the umbrella along side the strobe head.

Oh- I forgot to mention this- Any camera with a pre-flash system can mess up exposure with external light readings- big-time! That's why a direct hard wire to you camera is a good idea- to bypass everything that can mess up your readings. If the meter is consistently giving you over-exposed values- simply calibrate it to you system by using a higher ISO setting and fooling the meter and bypassing any exposure anomalies that may exist in your system.

[Eero Makela]

Thank you Ed and Rodney and Roger

I am really loving this forum. I can't believe how much good info I have been able to get here in the short amount of time I have been using this forum. I joined other groups but they were restricted to certain areas unless you pay $$.

Also thank you to the owners/operators of this site. The lessons continue...

[hotrod4x5]

ECTO, I have used my SB-800s with umbrellas, didn't mention it before. I used one on an old SC-17 cord (replaced by the SC-2 and it was in commander mode and the other was in remote. I had them in manual mode, for a few reasons, I wanted consistent light and I wasn't sure how to use them in auto mode, multiple flash. I wanted to turn down one a stop or two for a ratio, and I (still) don't know how to do that and have auto exposure. I fired each one manually to get the meter reading and set the ratio.

I was shooting through some small, 32 inch (I think ) umbrellas, they did pretty good.