Flash Question

[Montec]

I took photos for a girls softball team today and am not happy with some shadows, I used direct on-camera flash in manual mode (SB800 on a D300). Maybe I am being too picky but I hate the shadows under the chins of the girls...would a diffuser help? I don't have one but would get something if it would soften these shadows.

This is a crop to give you a closer view of what I mean. Original is below.

[LNL Photo]

MC direct flash sucks! The diffuser might help a bit, but I would get the flash off the camera and either use a cord or use a stand and PW's to get the light where you want it.

[SureFire]

Flash should not been above the lens. It should have been R/L and a larger source if possible. (brolly/SB)

[ladyphotog]

Get the flash off the camera and that will help immensely.

[Benji]

The hot shoe type flash units tend to leave hard shadows because they small. Several manufacturers make little diffusers to help soften them up a bit, but they also cut the power. This flash was on a bracket above the lens which accentuated the chin shadow. As someone above said a softbox or umbrella will make the light source larger and therefore softer.

Benji

[Montec]

Thanks to all...didn't really want to go off camera and thought maybe a diffuser like a Fong sphere might help...

[joshman]

hey, simple trick, turn your camera upside down and place a big piece of white card at your feet, angle the flash head and card so that it'll throw the light from your flash at the subject.

you end up with a large light source, and an upwards light.

[Montec]

Originally Posted by joshman

hey, simple trick, turn your camera upside down and place a big piece of white card at your feet, angle the flash head and card so that it'll throw the light from your flash at the subject.

you end up with a large light source, and an upwards light.

I don't think light from underneath would be very flattering? Un-natural. And I have enough trouble with the camera right side up...thanks for the suggestion though...

[Benji]

Originally Posted by joshman

hey, simple trick, turn your camera upside down and place a big piece of white card at your feet, angle the flash head and card so that it'll throw the light from your flash at the subject.

you end up with a large light source, and an upwards light.

This will give you "ghoul lighting" a technique used by Hollywood film producers of horror films. I don't think I want my subjects to look like Boris Karloff or Frankenstein.

Benji

[Ed Shapiro]

Speaking of Frankenstein- it's me again!

Keeping your light on a bracket above the camera is not a bad thing if you insist on keeping you flash unit on the camera. When you move your light source upward you will get some modeling. Where there is light- there is shadow and in this case the shadow wind up under the chin. The only way you are gonna get a portrait kinda lighting is to move the light source laterally as well as vertically.
Using a diffuser does not change the direction of the light so if it bolted to the hot shoe- the shadow is going to be there- perhaps a tiny bit softer.

So- consider off camera lighting or natural light and a reflector to get a better quality of lighting.

Ed

[Montec]

Thanks for the input Ed...so if I put my flash on a stand should I raise it up a couple feet above subjects face and to the left or right a couple feet? What is the optimal position to reduce shadows? Thanks

[dougsmit]

To reduce shadows you need a larger light source. Repositioning the light won't lessen shadows but could play down that on camera flash look you have now. Another (IMHO better) idea is to power down the flash so it is more of a fill than a main light source. That will allow the shadow placements to be controlled by the natural light and let the flash soften them but you have to be more careful to select a place and time when the natural light is good. I recently shot a soccer team at 6PM and that was a big low light angle mistake!

Diffusers work in two ways. They can be made large enough that they spread out the light but you lose a lot of light power by the time they get large enough to work. Most common use for a diffuser is indoors when you spread a lot of light around and count on it bouncing back onto the subject making the whole room a light source. This is a problem outdoors since the 'ceiling' is too high.

Another idea would be to add a reflector to throw another angle on the light . Setting it up and controlling it might take a few practice runs.

[Ed Shapiro]

Hey Montec- Nice flag, ay

Here's the problem: When you are working with a portable flash out of doors, there is usually no modeling lamp in the unit to show you were the shadows are going- you are shooting "blind" unless you have some knowledge of studio lighting and you can guesstimate where your flash should be. I can say between 30 and 45 degrees from the camera/subject axis and about 1 to 2 feet above the subject but that is a hit and miss situation,

There is also balancing the daylight and the light from the flash- you don't want to overpower the daylight or you may end up with a day for night effect where the background goes black. A starting point is to expose for your flash- before hand take an ambient light reading and find out what shutter speed is needed to accommodate the f/stop that your flash need for proper exposure. You will need to experiment and test before using this method on a job but once you nail it, things become easier. You also need to remember not to exceed the synch speed limitation of your camera.

Eg- If your flash exposure is f/8 and you exposure meter tells you that at f/8 you will need 1/125sec. to record the daylight- simply set the aperture at f/8 and move the shutter speed to 1/125 sec. If you decide to take an a/c unit out of doors you can adjust for you highlights and shadows and then turn off the modeling lamp because you don't want it to figure in toward the exposure.

I hope this helps. Ed Vive la CANADA

[joshman]

Originally Posted by Benji

This will give you "ghoul lighting" a technique used by Hollywood film producers of horror films. I don't think I want my subjects to look like Boris Karloff or Frankenstein.

Benji

hah, sounded like a good idea in my head

ok, try this one for an idea (again, just speaking off the top of my head) rotate the head of your flash somewhere in the order of 30-60deg, to camera left, and have a trusty assistant there with a reflector, to bounce it back on to the subject?

maybe even throw the light upwards, so the reflected light will appear to come from above and in front of the model?

[camrajoky]

I do out door imaging and I use a light stand with my sunpak 522's and a 24 inch umbrella to soften the light. Metering for the ambient light and then setting the flash to the same level. Working with the sun at your sujects back you will make the flash the key light. also as a helper....if you are using the umbrella....think of the center shaft as a pointer to the center of the cropping position. This will provide even lighting from top to bottom. Also if you have a 40* to 45* down angle on the flash...the shadows that do appear will appear normal.
Thomas

[thekorn]

Originally Posted by joshman

hey, simple trick, turn your camera upside down and place a big piece of white card at your feet, angle the flash head and card so that it'll throw the light from your flash at the subject.

If you really want to do that (...if...), a much easier way is to wear two white clean t-shirts, hold the camera upside down, then rotate the flash backwards so that it bounces off your stomach.

Originally Posted by Ed Shapiro

Here's the problem: When you are working with a portable flash out of doors, there is usually no modeling lamp in the unit to show you were the shadows are going- you are shooting "blind" unless you have some knowledge of studio lighting and you can guesstimate where your flash should be.

Actually, the SB-800 does have a modelling lamp. (Same lamp, it just fires continuously at 1/256th power or something.) I'd suggest that the OP start using it to see where his shadows will cast before he takes the picture. (IIRC, it's the grey button on the back of the SB-800.)