Softbox or Umbrella's

[WooD]

Which would give the best results for portrait work. I'll be using a AB800 and cant decide if a 32X40 softbox or a 60" reversible shoot thru umbrella would give the best results. This will be my first light set up that's not continuous. I plan on starting out with two Alien Bee 800's.

Thanks

[caryj]

I'd go with the softbox.

[rshunk]

What about splitting the difference and going with something like a Photek Softlighter, which gives you the best of both?


Bob S.

[Ed Shapiro]

Hi there!

Soft boxes and umbrellas have certain similarities but there are more differences than those similarities. They are both bounce light devices or light modifiers, however you may wish to have some of each for different kinds of work.

Generally speaking, soft boxes will simulate the light of a window with a northern sky exposure providing a soft but well defined light source. For those who like working with window light, soft boxes offer a 24/7 north light regardless of the weather or time of day. Since soft boxes come in many sizes and configurations there are many variations in their effect. Larger boxes will create a softer lighting than a smaller one at a given distance. For fashion and group portraits, I prefer the big ones. For portraiture, I usually prefer smaller boxes in that there is a bit more natural of fall off toward the edges of the frame and that they afford more precise control in comming up with some of the more classical lighting patterns.

Umbrellas are a parabolic light sources and several kinds of lighting qualities can be obtained from one medium sized umbrella. Theses variations will depend on the reflective surface of the umbrella and the distance form the lamp head to the reflective surface. As with all lighting equipment and reflectors- the closer the light sources is to the subject the softer the effect.

Shooting through an umbrella can be somewhat similar to a soft box effect but more light will "escape" and bounce off the walls and ceilings causing more unseen secondary light.

When you place any of theses configuration far from the subject their softness diminishes and a more contrasty and cutting lighting will result.

If you intend do do any table top, food or product photography an overhead soft box set up is the best choice. This kind of set up will produce smooth even highlight and can provide both dark and light field effects. An umbrella will usually show as a hot spot on many items rather than a smooth highlight. Again size construction of the device and distance from the subject will play a part in the final results.

As a starter kit with nice AB mono-light with a 24 inch soft box and a fill reflector will enable some nice portrait lighting. If you have a second AB, that unit in a larger box can serve as a fill light. Between the two units you can create many effects and accommodate a variety of subjects.

You may wish to do some shopping around and, if possible, get some demonstrations of the various modifiers. Umbrellas are pretty straightforward but soft boxes are all over the place. Some have inner and outer diffusers so you can vary the degree of diffusion by putting in or taking out one of the diffusion panels. With some you can direct the lamp head toward the back of the unit so that you are getting a bounced and the diffused light. Other may be constructed is such a way so that the light is directly striking the diffusion panel(s) with a bare bulb configuration. I am given to understand that AB has it's own dedicated soft boxes. You should also make sure the soft boxes of you choice are able to be safely used with the quartz modeling lamps that the AB are equipped with. Some require a fan built into the lamp head and other use other forms of convection to keep things from overheating. You don't want to set fire to an umbrella either- the 150 and 250 watt quartz lamps that are in most mono lights can easily set fire to cloth- so keep your distance there.

I hope this helps. Ed

PS- check out theses companies on the web:

Photogenic Lighting Equipment
Westcott Photographic Lighting Equipment
Larson Photographic Lighting Equipment

[WooD]

Thanks in great multitudes for the replies. I ended up ordering the 2 AB800's, a 60" reversible shoot thru umbrella, and a 30 X 60" softbox. Ordered it all thru AB's web site. I was told the soft box has 2 diffusers, so I'm hoping it will suit my needs.

I couldn't decide which to buy, so I got them both.

Thanks Again

[hotrod4x5]

30x60 inch softbox? That's HUGE.

[WooD]

Originally Posted by hotrod4x5

30x60 inch softbox? That's HUGE.

Yeah it is. I've never used one before. All I have right now is a few 500W hot lights, and 42" shoot thru umbrella's. What I'm wanting it for is full length portraits, and sometimes couple's shoots. Would I be better off with their 32 X 40" softbox? They sell grids that can be placed in the boxes too, would that be something I might need?

Thanks

[Ed Shapiro]

That big box will be good for full length work. For closeups you might want a smaller soft box- around 24 inches. The big unit may be difficult to maneuver depending on the space available.

When you get your gear up and running, post a few images and show us how you are dong, Making the transition from hot lights to electronic flash is always interesting. The grids will condense the light beam and give you a quasi spot light effect. Good luck- Ed

[WooD]

Now I'm feeling like I've jumped into the water before testing it. AB has a killer return policy, sucks thinking of sending stuff back before I even recieve it.

The area I'll be doing most of my shooting is a two car garage with a 8.5 foot. I can move a few things around and shoot in our living/great room which is 27x18, and has a multi level ceiling up to 14 foot.

I'm probably for sure going to return the SB for the 32X40 model, and now I'm wondering if I might should have got a AB400, and a 800 instead of the two 800's.

[rshunk]

You can do a lot with your oblong softbox (30x60). Besides full length shots, as already mentioned, you can set it up as a rim light, a background light (at floor level), and as a hairlight for a larger group. They're very useful in many situations.


Bob S.

[brian.austin]

I have the 32x40, the 30x60, (2) AB800's, and (2) AB1600's, as well as a bunch of other umbrellas, etc..

The 30x60 fits fine in a 2 car garage. In fact, I've used both the 40 and 60 in a two car garage for a balanced light effect on a full length model shot. If you need a smaller size softbox but don't want to spend the money, mask off part of it. Black cloth clipped to the sides of a 30x60 softbox can turn it into a 30x30 portrait SB. Just use binder clips or something you pick up at the office supply store.

As for lights: I've found that I rarely bring up my AB800's to full power for INDOOR shots but I need it sometimes for outdoor work. I'd rather have the 800 and not need all of it than the 400 and wish I had more. I also prefer to keep things balanced in pairs for spares and easier lighting setups.

[WooD]

I cant thank you people enough. As I said before I've only used hot lights, and this is all new to me. Your comments are greatly appreciated, and needed.

Thanks Again

[hotrod4x5]

Good tip Brian about masking off part of the soft box! You can always make them smaller, but not bigger.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by hotrod4x5

Good tip Brian about masking off part of the soft box! You can always make them smaller, but not bigger.

I've used big softboxes before (rented) but found that for home/personal work, just building a diffusion screen works well enough. Thin white sheet stretched across a frame with a strobe behind it. Mask or use barn doors to focus the strobe if overspill is an issue.

[pellepiano]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

just building a diffusion screen works well enough.

Yes, thats what Ive been using too , as Im on a rather low budget. Cheap light can be as soft as any other light =)

[kgphoto]

I would rather own two balanced lights with control capabilities, I e turn one down to 1/2 power and one to 1/4 power. than two different ones. That way I know I can balance them.

A big box is very useful and since you have the small (42") umbrella, I wouldn't send the big box back, just yet. I do like black backed umbrellas way more than shoot through style, but sometimes they are the only thing that will work, so I have the convertable type that do both.

[WooD]

Originally Posted by kgphoto

I would rather own two balanced lights with control capabilities, I e turn one down to 1/2 power and one to 1/4 power. than two different ones. That way I know I can balance them.

A big box is very useful and since you have the small (42") umbrella, I wouldn't send the big box back, just yet. I do like black backed umbrellas way more than shoot through style, but sometimes they are the only thing that will work, so I have the convertable type that do both.

After all the replies, I've decided to keep the big box. The 60" umbrella I ordered is convertable so it can be used as a shoot thru, plus it has the black back cover. I figure those added to my 42" shoot thru umbrellas should fill my needs at this time.